Need an Opinion on A Sierra Nevada Clone--Virtual Tasting.

[Mike at Bay]

Hey gang. I just kegged an extract brew Sierra Nevada clone from MoreBeer. I am put off by the initial tasting. The hops used were .5oz Magnum @ 60 min, 1oz Perle @30 mins, 2oz Cascade @ 1 min and 1oz cascade dry hop at day 7. The taste is strong (not go strong) on the back of the tongue. Can't tell if I am tasting hops or an off taste but either way it doesn't seem like a Sierra Nevada at this point.

I brewed a similar grain version of this beer and the taste turned me off so I dumped it thinking it was bad. I am reluctant to toss this one too quickly. (gets expensive) Could it be those hops are just that strong and I should let sit for sometime and come back to it? Just put gas on it this morning.

I am a pretty OCD cleaner using PBW and Star San all the time but I am beginning to wonder if it is me or the beer.

 

[Brew Cat]

how long has it been in the keg?
a pale ale can always benefit from a little lagering IMO

 

[Mike at Bay]

how long has it been in the keg?
a pale ale can always benefit from a little lagering IMO

Less than an hour.

 

[J A]

Less than an hour.

Depending on how you crashed and packaged, you could be getting some hop residue and extra yeast gunk from the first pours. Very fresh Pales and IPAs tend to seem more hoppy than they do after they settle and clear but neither magnum nor Perle are harsh hops. They're both also unnecessary for this recipe, though I do almost always use Magnum for basic bittering because it's very efficient.
One thing you can do, if you haven't, is to plug all the ingredients and volumes into the recipe calculator, paying close attention to the actual AA percentage of the hops you used. There's no reason to trust that kits are put together with exacting attention to detail.
Once you're brewing all-grain and kegging, there's not much reason to depend on kits. You can put together a better recipe based on a little research and calculation. Sierra Nevada Pale is not a complex beer...Pale Ale malt and a little C-40 or CaraMunich mashed at 152-154 plus Cascade hops and Chico yeast. If you've enjoyed the beer in it's commercial form, a properly homebrewed version shouldn't put you off.

 

[Mike at Bay]

Depending on how you crashed and packaged, you could be getting some hop residue and extra yeast gunk from the first pours. Very fresh Pales and IPAs tend to seem more hoppy than they do after they settle and clear but neither magnum nor Perle are harsh hops. They're both also unnecessary for this recipe, though I do almost always use Magnum for basic bittering because it's very efficient.
One thing you can do, if you haven't, is to plug all the ingredients and volumes into the recipe calculator, paying close attention to the actual AA percentage of the hops you used. There's no reason to trust that kits are put together with exacting attention to detail.
Once you're brewing all-grain and kegging, there's not much reason to depend on kits. You can put together a better recipe based on a little research and calculation. Sierra Nevada Pale is not a complex beer...Pale Ale malt and a little C-40 or CaraMunich mashed at 152-154 plus Cascade hops and Chico yeast. If you've enjoyed the beer in it's commercial form, a properly homebrewed version shouldn't put you off.

Thanks. I did col crash for a few days but I am going to let it sit because I think the first few pours were not as clear as my hydro samples after they sat for a few days. I do look forward to moving away from expensive kits.

 

[Megary]

Less than an hour.

Taste it in a week after it has had proper time to “condition” and then let us know what you think. I’m thinking you’ll be much happier, even if you still may not be completely satisfied.

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale should definitely not come across as too bitter or too hoppy. IMO, the beer leans far more to the caramel/sweet side. And I agree with @J A , SNPA is a rather unfussy beer. The Perle was out of place and the amount of Cascade late additions seems heavy handed to me.

 

[Mike at Bay]

Taste it in a week after it has had proper time to “condition” and then let us know what you think. I’m thinking you’ll be much happier, even if you still may not be completely satisfied.

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale should definitely not come across as too bitter or too hoppy. IMO, the beer leans far more to the caramel/sweet side. And I agree with @J A , SNPA is a rather unfussy beer. The Perle was out of place and the amount of Cascade late additions seems heavy handed to me.

Thanks. I appreciate the insights. Not sure how to build a hop bill for a beer. I will do some research.

 

[Mike at Bay]

Funny. I just found the recipe on the SN site. Ugh. Only Cascade. It shows a 90 min boil. What would drive a 90 min boil vs my standard 60 min?

 

[Dave Y]

Funny. I just found the recipe on the SN site. Ugh. Only Cascade. It shows a 90 min boil. What would drive a 90 min boil vs my standard 60 min?

You'd get more of a Maillard(?) reaction; in laymans terms, stronger malt base or foundation and I think would kind of work against you on a pale ale, where hops are kind of the star of the show, the singer if you will, where the malt is the lead guitar, yeast the drums and water the bass player.

Give the beer settle time and retest. Only about 25% of my beers straight out of the fermenter are 100% true to taste, I lager everything, even if I put the tap on it right away,

 

[J A]

Thanks. I appreciate the insights. Not sure how to build a hop bill for a beer. I will do some research.

If you search the beer recipes here on BF you'll find 29 pages of results. The top one is from @Ozarks Mountain Brewery. He uses the Perle (but half as much as you've noted) and he uses C60 rather than C40 but knowing that he's a top brewer and very good at formulating recipes, I wouldn't hesitate for second to brew it exactly as he's laid it out. One of the reasons to use Magnum is because Cascade hops lack in AA strength. You have to use several ounces to get the same result so there's a lot more hop material in the kettle. The Perle is optional but, again, if Ozark says it works, I'd trust his opinion.
You'll notice that the IBUs are less than 40 and the OG is 1.055 that puts the ratio of IBU/OG at less than 1. That indicates a beer with strong hop presence but not necessarily a strong perceived bitterness.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/28546/sierra-nevada-pale-ale-clone

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

If you search the beer recipes here on BF you'll find 29 pages of results. The top one is from @Ozarks Mountain Brewery. He uses the Perle (but half as much as you've noted) and he uses C60 rather than C40 but knowing that he's a top brewer and very good at formulating recipes, I wouldn't hesitate for second to brew it exactly as he's laid it out. One of the reasons to use Magnum is because Cascade hops lack in AA strength. You have to use several ounces to get the same result so there's a lot more hop material in the kettle. The Perle is optional but, again, if Ozark says it works, I'd trust his opinion.
You'll notice that the IBUs are less than 40 and the OG is 1.055 that puts the ratio of IBU/OG at less than 1. That indicates a beer with strong hop presence but not necessarily a strong perceived bitterness.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/28546/sierra-nevada-pale-ale-clone

the perl is there to add some sharpness that cascade does not have

 

[Mike at Bay]

If you search the beer recipes here on BF you'll find 29 pages of results. The top one is from @Ozarks Mountain Brewery. He uses the Perle (but half as much as you've noted) and he uses C60 rather than C40 but knowing that he's a top brewer and very good at formulating recipes, I wouldn't hesitate for second to brew it exactly as he's laid it out. One of the reasons to use Magnum is because Cascade hops lack in AA strength. You have to use several ounces to get the same result so there's a lot more hop material in the kettle. The Perle is optional but, again, if Ozark says it works, I'd trust his opinion.
You'll notice that the IBUs are less than 40 and the OG is 1.055 that puts the ratio of IBU/OG at less than 1. That indicates a beer with strong hop presence but not necessarily a strong perceived bitterness.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/28546/sierra-nevada-pale-ale-clone

Super helpful. Because I am OCD I did buy grains to do this all grain brew again (until I get it right). Props to Ozark as I will base my brew on his recipe. I BiAB. So the math on the hop presence is also very helpful. Don’t sit still long enough to read books these days but clearly I should spend some time researching these basics.

 

[Mike at Bay]

the perl is there to add some sharpness that cascade does not have

Awesome thanks. I am going to let this sit for a bit and it should improve. I’ll be sure to let yall know how the next all grain version works out.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

originally from the manufacture this beer was brewed with high sulfate water and you didn't need any bitterness, your issue might be your water

 

[Mike at Bay]

originally from the manufacture this beer was brewed with high sulfate water and you didn't need any bitterness, your issue might be your water

Overall Water Report:

Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 Alkalinity Residual Alkalinity mg/l mg/l mg/l mg/l mg/l ppm as CaCO3 ppm as CaCO3 55.3 39.0 15.0 32.0 3.0 264.0 201.7 normal high normal normal low Range Check

Most recent water report from Ward.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Overall Water Report:

Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 Alkalinity Residual Alkalinity mg/l mg/l mg/l mg/l mg/l ppm as CaCO3 ppm as CaCO3 55.3 39.0 15.0 32.0 3.0 264.0 201.7 normal high normal normal low Range Check

Most recent water report from Ward.

high alkalinity means hashish beers unless you add enough acid

 

[Brew Cat]

add gypsum

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

with all neutral water my recipe will taste good, adding gypsum without lowering the alkalinity will be too bitter, its really a hard beer to brew and taste like the original

 

[Mike at Bay]

high alkalinity means hashish beers unless you add enough acid

Thanks. Can you describe hashish? What alkalinity would be appropriate?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

0 is best but a low as posible