Will this make a decent beer?

[Malakian]

Not sure I understand, but are you critiquing an unfinished, unattenuated beer to figure out how you can improve the next batch? If that's the case, there's no way you could make decisions or have a real idea of what it's like until it's finished and carbed.
A quick drop in gravity is common over the first 2-3 days. It slows quite a bit and even though it may have gone nearly all the way in a short while, it may take several days or a week just to drop the last couple of points.

Guess I'm a little too impatient for beer I can usually get a rough estimate of how a wine/cider turns out by tasting it close to the end of primary. Might not be so easy with beer, a lot more going on in there in terms of chemistry. I just thought if it tastes watery now at 1.018 it will only become thinner as it sugers go down and ABV up. My SO will probably love it though, she thinks Sol is slightly to full-bodied, true beer-lover indeed. Her favorite beer would probably be a 5% ish ABV spirit wash, with 5gr of Mittelfruh for bittering in a 5g batch

Joking aside, I think for my next batch I want to try:
0.6kg Flaked Corn
0.7kg Pilsen Malt
0.3kg Caramalt

And try M42 New World Strong Ale yeast from Mangrove jack instead of the US-05. I love my 05, but I've read a lot of good things about the M42, seems it might lend some beneficial light esters/aromas, it attenuates a little lower which might help the body, and it has vastly better floccing abilities apparently.

If anyone is curios, here is the recipe: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/689565/mexican-cerveza

 

[J A]

Joking aside, I think for my next batch I want to try:
0.6kg Flaked Corn
0.7kg Pilsen Malt
0.3kg Caramalt

If you're still doing extract/steeped, you're wasting your time with corn. Just get some corn sugar and add to the extract. Same difference. Maybe you get a hint of corn flavor from the wet cornflakes, but that's not generally a big draw in most styles, anyway.
As for water-y body the way you get that is corn (or rice). Just sayin'
And you'll find that most extract beers are lacking body. You might want to try something like a simple extract beer (mix of light and amber) with just plenty of Carapils in the steeping bag and see where that gets you. Then you can branch out a little. You're sort of heading down a rabbit hole.
Or just bite the bullet and get a proper mashing set up so you can actually use base malts and adjuncts in the way that they actually work.

 

[Malakian]

If you're still doing extract/steeped, you're wasting your time with corn. Just get some corn sugar and add to the extract. Same difference. Maybe you get a hint of corn flavor from the wet cornflakes, but that's not generally a big draw in most styles, anyway.
As for water-y body the way you get that is corn (or rice). Just sayin'
And you'll find that most extract beers are lacking body. You might want to try something like a simple extract beer (mix of light and amber) with just plenty of Carapils in the steeping bag and see where that gets you. Then you can branch out a little. You're sort of heading down a rabbit hole.
Or just bite the bullet and get a proper mashing set up so you can actually use base malts and adjuncts in the way that they actually work.

Way ahead of you, already ordered all parts I need for a plastic fully automatic brew kettle from eBay. PID, 4000W element, resirc. pump and some bits and pieces. Got a heap of 2-3m lengths of 12mm (1/2") copper pipe for next to nothing on Norway's equivalent to Craigslist, planing on joining them with some solder joints and make a chiller. 35 ish feet should be enough for a 6g batch, right? Now comes the 2-4 week wait for all the parts to arrive *sigh*

Well, I'll be honest, this is like cursing in the church, but I'm going for a Corona/Sol Clone if you haven't already figured it out. And 95% of the recipes for Mexican lagers out there calls for Corn, thats why its on my grain bill.

But on the "tasting" part of the beer, you are totally right. Can't tell how it will turn out for shit (excuse my language). Tasted it today at 1.012, and it was sweeter and more body than when I tried it at 1.018. Go figure.

 

[Nosybear]

Here's what you can do: Ever considered doing a mini-mash? Combine the grains, add water at about 3l/kg of grain. Calculate the temperature using the mash calculator or even easier, put them in a mesh bag, throw them in a pan of water and heat to about 150 degrees. Let it stand for an hour, adjusting the temperature at need. You will have mashed the Pilsner, Corn and Caramalt. Drain the bag, dunk it in your water for reconstitution and drain a few times then proceed as normal with an extract brew, adding the wort you made in the mini-mash to your other brewing liquor.

 

[Malakian]

Here's what you can do: Ever considered doing a mini-mash? Combine the grains, add water at about 3l/kg of grain. Calculate the temperature using the mash calculator or even easier, put them in a mesh bag, throw them in a pan of water and heat to about 150 degrees. Let it stand for an hour, adjusting the temperature at need. You will have mashed the Pilsner, Corn and Caramalt. Drain the bag, dunk it in your water for reconstitution and drain a few times then proceed as normal with an extract brew, adding the wort you made in the mini-mash to your other brewing liquor.

Thats pretty much what I did with this batch. Only I had 152f ish, for 80 min. Used a colander instead of a bag. And I "flushed" with 3L of 167f instead of letting it soak in a tub of water.

 

[Nosybear]

That should work fine. 80 mins is overkill, 60 is generally more than adequate, but it won't hurt anything. Sounds like you're on the right track.

 

[Malakian]

I can now vouche for the "synthetic" Alpha-amylase are some effective little buggers. My beer stopped at 1.014, same for 3 days and no airlock activity. And thats way too sweet for my liking in such a light beer, almost undrinkable.

Apparently I wasn't able to convert everything, or maybe its the extract. Either way, I added 1gr of amylase to a 23L batch. Recommended dosage is 3gr pr 10L, so I was very conservative. Now 3 hours later, even at 18c the krausen is back and its chugging along happily.

Hope it doesn't get too dry. If that is the case, can I back sweeten with Maltodextrin? If not I can use some P.sorbate and campden to inhibit the yeast, and use some fresh extract I guess. I force carbonate anyways.

 

[Nosybear]

I can now vouche for the "synthetic" Alpha-amylase are some effective little buggers. My beer stopped at 1.014, same for 3 days and no airlock activity. And thats way too sweet for my liking in such a light beer, almost undrinkable.

Apparently I wasn't able to convert everything, or maybe its the extract. Either way, I added 1gr of amylase to a 23L batch. Recommended dosage is 3gr pr 10L, so I was very conservative. Now 3 hours later, even at 18c the krausen is back and its chugging along happily.

Hope it doesn't get too dry. If that is the case, can I back sweeten with Maltodextrin? If not I can use some P.sorbate and campden to inhibit the yeast, and use some fresh extract I guess. I force carbonate anyways.

Maltodextrine is not sweet. Use lactose if you need sugar sweetness and body. And think about it: You just added an enzyme to digest dextrines. The enzyme is not going to be denatured at lagering or packaging temperatures so if you add maltodextrine, what do you think will happen? Yes, the enzyme will eat it as well. Your notion will stop the yeast and make the beer packageable, but it won't stop the enzyme. It'll happily convert those dextrines to glucose and without yeast, you'll be back where you started, sweet beer.

About the only reason I can see to use additional amylase enzymes is to thoroughly dry out a beer. And about the only way I can see of stopping it is to find out at what temperature the enzyme denatures, and then heating your beer to that temperature for long enough to stop it.

 

[Malakian]

Maltodextrine is not sweet. Use lactose if you need sugar sweetness and body. And think about it: You just added an enzyme to digest dextrines. The enzyme is not going to be denatured at lagering or packaging temperatures so if you add maltodextrine, what do you think will happen? Yes, the enzyme will eat it as well. Your notion will stop the yeast and make the beer packageable, but it won't stop the enzyme. It'll happily convert those dextrines to glucose and without yeast, you'll be back where you started, sweet beer.

About the only reason I can see to use additional amylase enzymes is to thoroughly dry out a beer. And about the only way I can see of stopping it is to find out at what temperature the enzyme denatures, and then heating your beer to that temperature for long enough to stop it.

That is true, but If i clear the beer and add P.Sorbate and Campden the yeast should not be able to reproduce or eat anymore sugar. So the Enzyme can convert all it want, but if the yeast doesn't "eat" it the residual sugars will still be there. Or am I way off here?

 

[White Haus Brews]

As long as you didn't end up with a stuck fermentation with simple sugars that didn't get consumed by the yeast there has been little proof I've seen that FG affects sweetness in any perceivable way. The sugars that don't get broken down are not sweet to taste. That's why you can create a session version of most recipes by mashing at a higher temp (All grain) which leaves you with a higher FG (up to 8-10+ points) and it still tastes the same as the one mash low with less ABV. YMMV but I'm not really convinced it makes a difference.

 

[Malakian]

I have a lot to learn about beer brewing thats for sure. But the "finished" beer after primary, tasted quite sweet to me. Hoping/thought bringing down the FG might help a bit with that. But we'll see, my first batch so its more of an experiment than anything

 

[Nosybear]

As long as you didn't end up with a stuck fermentation with simple sugars that didn't get consumed by the yeast there has been little proof I've seen that FG affects sweetness in any perceivable way. The sugars that don't get broken down are not sweet to taste. That's why you can create a session version of most recipes by mashing at a higher temp (All grain) which leaves you with a higher FG (up to 8-10+ points) and it still tastes the same as the one mash low with less ABV. YMMV but I'm not really convinced it makes a difference.

Agreed. "Sweetness" in beer is largely a function of amylase enzymes in saliva breaking down dextrines in the beer. Hence a lower mash temperature, fewer dextrines, tastes less sweet than a higher mash temperature, more dextrines. And to the comment that the enzymes can break the dextrines down all they want, the result of that breakdown is sugar, glucose specifically. So you're right back where you started but with a sweet beer at 1.000.

 

[J A]

But the "finished" beer after primary, tasted quite sweet to me. Hoping/thought bringing down the FG might help a bit with that.

What seems counterproductive to me is that the amalase isn't going to do anything but produce more sugars that are fermentable. The yeast still has to do the work of converting sugars to alcohol. As I mentioned in an earlier post, judging flavor solely from an unfinished beer isn't necessarily the best gauge. The carbonic bite of CO2 in a finished beer and bitterness from the hops do quite a lot to mitigate the residual sweetness. Yes, your FG was high but not necessarily completely out of the range and quite possibly would have gone lower on its own if left alone.
I'm sure you'll find your way but I'm not sure how much of your winemaking technique is directly transferable to brewing. Some things that make great wine just aren't applicable to the brewing process.

 

[J A]

Me and Nosy are tracking in tandem again. ^^^

 

[Nosybear]

^^^^ Dang, that's scary!

 

[J A]

You know...great minds think alike.

 

[White Haus Brews]

In your original post you said you were looking for low bitterness and residual sweetness, the biscuit malt will also add some deep, malty flavors which could come across as sweet. It sounds like you got exactly what you were going for

What was your OG and expexted IBU?

 

[Malakian]

It dropped to 1.010 a day after the amylase and its been sitting there since. Gonna give it to Friday, if its still at 1.010, I think its time for a transfer into a clean fermenter and let it clear some more. Can you use wine clearing agents (Chitosan and Kieselsol, I have these on hand) or should I just get some Gelatin like I read most use on beer?

 

[Nosybear]

It dropped to 1.010 a day after the amylase and its been sitting there since. Gonna give it to Friday, if its still at 1.010, I think its time for a transfer into a clean fermenter and let it clear some more. Can you use wine clearing agents (Chitosan and Kieselsol, I have these on hand) or should I just get some Gelatin like I read most use on beer?

The two-stage fining (chitosan and kieselsol) works nicely but seem to be overkill. Unflavored gelatin is cheap and will produce crystal-bright beers. Your call - both work.

 

[White Haus Brews]

There's not really any evidence that moving to another fermenter helps clear it up any better than sitting in a bottle or keg. You'll mostly just risk oxidizing and infecting it and give you another vessel to clean. If you're at FG I would go ahead and package it up!

The only fining I use now is Whirfloc in the boil but it sounds like any of those would work too