Will this make a decent beer?

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by Ole A. Norgren, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Malakian

    Malakian New Member

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    #1 Malakian, Aug 9, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
    Hi, new here. Been lurking for a while and finally decided to try a beer. I'm not completely unexperienced, I've made quite a lot of cider and wine, but never beer.

    So for the first one, and since I have no equipment for mashing and trying to do it as simple as possible. My style of beer I was thinking of is a light beer, low bitterness, not too "hopppy" and some residual sweetness with maybe a hint of citrus. Yeah, I know, I'm not the biggest beer-fan (yet), shoot me for wanting a "water"-beer :p

    My plan is to use Safale US-05, 4.6kg LME Pilsen, 0.5kg Belgian Buscuit malt, 25g 60 min 25g 15 min Hallertau Mittelfruh hops for a 23L batch, target OG 1.062 ish. Maybe some Cascade/Lemondrop for citrus flavor, ideas, amount, boil time?

    So I was thinking of boiling ca. 4L of water (don't have a bigger pot) with the Specialty malt and hops. Not boiling the LME. That would give me an estimated boil OG of 1.027 and according to the IBU calc I should have around 19 IBUs after boil in a 23L batch. Chilling with a ice bath.

    Would this work, or even produce a half decent beer? Most curios if my math/logic is right, and if you can even do the malt/hop boil with so little volume?

    Thanks a lot in advance!
     
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  2. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    You need to steep the specialty grains in your 4lt pot for lets say 30min to extract the flavours and sugars i do it warm in the normal.mash range 65c. After half hour take out the grains add your pilsen DME bring to boil add you bittering hop.
    Mittlefuruh is a floral spicey hop used for greman lager beers if you want the citrus thing yes cascade or (i havnt tried it) lemon drop would be a more citrusy option even Orange/Lemon zest with 10 left in boil may bring the citrus theam. As for your small boil itll be fine going this method as this is pretty stock standard for Kit brewers just the bittering will be tricky and im sure brewers with more experience on partial boil beers will help to elaborate. Id drop the gravity down a little too if were be .052 ish that way more sessionable but is just my 2c good luck .
     
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  3. White Haus Brews

    White Haus Brews Active Member

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    I don't think aromatic has enough diastatic power to convert the sugars itself (or at least not quickly) so you may want to throw a little base malt in (0.25kg should do) with your specialty grains.

    I feel like the malty character from the aromatic might clash with citrusy hops but who knows, could be amazing.

    Also keep in mind hop utilization (amount of bitterness and flavor you'll get from the hops) changes based on the boil gravity so if you don't add your extract until the end you'll need less hops than expected.

    Finally I would not and cool all the water that you will use to dilute. May not be necessary but it's good insurance against infection. And on that note give sanitation your biggest focus on your first few brews. That will ruin a beer easier than anything else you could do.

    Good luck and happy brewing!
     
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  4. Malakian

    Malakian New Member

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    #4 Malakian, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
    Thanks guys for the input!

    Completely forgot about mashing. So I plan to mash at 66c for 60 min, remove grains then proceed with 45 min boil for hops.
    I also changed the recipe to a more mexican style lager. Since I don't have a fermentation chamber, I'm hoping the relatively neutral taste of Safale US-05 will do the trick, ambient temp is about 18c, so can expect 20c in wort I guess. I'll throw a little LME in the boil for the diastatic power (?), which I'm guessing has to do with the enzymes and conversion of sugers?

    3.6kg LME Pilsen
    1kg Flaked Corn

    17gr H.Mittelfruh 45min
    15gr H.Mittelfruh 15min
    8gr Cascade 15min

    OG 1.053
    FG 1.010
    IBU 13.6

    What do you think? Would it work out, and be in the ball park of my vague description? Think I should dry hop? Getting 100gr of each so have plenty.
     
  5. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    When you mash, you have to use a base grain. Flaked corn will just create starch without mashing with a base grain like pilsner malt (not extract). LME does NOT have diastatic power, and the corn would have to be mashed before any boiling.

    So, no, this recipe won't work, and the cascade hops would be weird in a Mexican lager with the hallertauer so I'd think about changing the hops schedule.
     
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  6. Malakian

    Malakian New Member

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    I'll just drop the cascade all together then, and add 0.25kg of pilsner malt to the mash. Maybe try the lemon cest thing instead for the citrus flavor.
     
  7. ChicoBrewer

    ChicoBrewer Well-Known Member

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    One option would be to get a 2.5 gal all grain kit then focus on the process instead of a recipe. Worked well for me.
     
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  8. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    If you're just going for diastatic power - the ability to convert starches to sugars - try using 0.25 kg of 6-row instead of two-row. It has a higher diastatic power than two-row and in small amounts like this, it won't change the flavor enough to notice.
     
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  9. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Given the OPs objective, it would be better to skip all the mini-mash contortions and just use simple steeping grains like Carapils, Crystal 10, Crystal 20, etc for a first extract batch. No need to worry about diastatic power. Just steep for half hour at 150-160 and use that plus some of the extract for a 20 minute boil. Easy to calculate and easy to execute. Save all the fancy stuff for subsequent batches.
     
  10. Malakian

    Malakian New Member

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    #10 Malakian, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
    But I like fancy stuff! :p

    Well, I just got back from the store, so the recipe is now set in stone, so to speak. Bonus, they had a sale on 14.5kg tub of LME. 50$, and that should last me 3-4 batches. So happy about that. I'll keep in mind that 6-row grain for Diastatic power on next batches, good tip.

    H.Mittelfruh for bittering and aroma.
    1kg flaked corn
    300gr Pilsner malt.
    3.4kg LME Pilsner

    Mash 5L 66c 60 min, remove grain, boil 45 min for hops. Add extract and wort to pail, dilute to 23L 23c, stirr like hell. Yeast and nutrients. Hopefully it will become something drinkable :)

    Thanks for all the input and tips!
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    So, for post # 5,000: I don't think 300g Pilsner will convert 1,000g flaked corn. You'll get some conversion and some corn flavor but in essence, with only 300g of malt with any diastatic power, you almost are as well off steeping the corn and you may wind up with a lot of unconverted starch in your wort. Think haze. But it will make beer and based on your post, your next recipe will be better crafted than this, which is my hope for my own brewing, every recipe, every brew day.
     
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  12. okoncentrerad

    okoncentrerad Active Member

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    Congratulations to 5000...that's two posts per day of helpful advices to fellow brewers!
     
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  13. Malakian

    Malakian New Member

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    #13 Malakian, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
    Ok, so I found a formula to calculate Diastatic power: Lintner_for_batch = Σ(lintner_for_grain * weight_of_grain) / (total_batch_grain_weight)
    And German Pilsner malt has a Lintner of aprox. 110 L. So it would be (110*300)/1300 ≈ 26L. The site says to have 30L minimum in the mash to fully convert, but also that longer mash times will convert more.

    Seeing that I'm pretty close to target, you think mashing for 90-120 min will aid enough to convert most of the starches?

    Edit: Well, Shit! Found the actual datasheet of the malt I bought, 250 wk Diastatic power, which converts to roughly 80 Lintner. Which gives me about 19L in the mash. Guess ill buy some 6 row tomorrow to boost it up some.

    Edit 2: This isn't easy, manufacturer of the malt says MINIMUM 80 Lintner, but the PDF download says 140 Lintner. But also reading several other sources stating german pilsner is usually around 110-120 Lintner. So I'll gamble on that it has at least 110L. I'll try a 120 min mash a 66c with current grain bill. Wish me luck
     
  14. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I've never bothered with those calculations but they back me up. Next problem is the lifecycle of the enzymes. A 120 minute mash doesn't give you a whole lot more conversion than a 30-minute mash because the temperature denatures the enzymes. Rather than starting a whole new discussion on heat sensitivity of enzymes, I'd recommend just let it go for this beer, adopt the "rule of thumb" that you need at least as much base malt as adjunct to convert the starches for future batches. Besides, haze is in these days.... :)

    Good luck with it!
     
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  15. Malakian

    Malakian New Member

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    I'm gonna get some Iodide and another 200gr of malt tomorrow. That should put me just over 30L and I can check with the Iodide. Atleast ill get some peace of mind, and I'll know when its done converting.
     
  16. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    To convert the corn, you need to have sufficient diastatic power from the pilsner malt. I didn't do the math (the software does, so check it in the recipe or post the recipe here after making it public so we can see if it does if you can't find where that is) but .25kg of pilsner malt isn't likely enough to convert itself plus 2 kgs of flaked corn- but please check that because I don't know for sure what kind of pilsner malt you're using, etc.

    I would not add lemon zest- I'd just serve with a lemon or lime if you want to have that in the beer. Citrus zest in many cases is NOT a good thing in a beer.

    Edit- I missed the post that you knew this already, as I didn't see those last few posts.
    You can just do it in Brewer's Friend and skip the math if it's not easy for you. (It's not for me, so it's one of the things I like best about Brewer's Friend).
     
  17. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    ^^^ brewers friend has made me lazy, I'm so dialed in I no longer have to figure anything, all my settings, water, gravities, hops and bitterness are all right on, I just read and it happens ;)
     
  18. White Haus Brews

    White Haus Brews Active Member

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    You've gotten a lot of good advice here so all I have left to say is have fun, pay super close attention to your sanitation, and go make yourself some beer! When is brew day?
     
  19. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    That's why we start simple. ;)
    There's more to the whole thing than just throwing ingredients at it. It's not rocket science but there is a learning curve and it might be worthwhile to get some of the most basic concepts and processes figured out before wasting time and money on something that may or may not be drinkable.
    Good luck.
     
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  20. Malakian

    Malakian New Member

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    Brew day is today. Just got back from the store armed with 300gr more of pilsen malt, iodine solution and Alpha-amylase. Might not get the most fermentable sugars if I have to use the enzyme, but atleast I won't have startches. So let the battle of the startches commence.

    Sanitation shouldn't be a issue, since I have done several batches with cider, and I have another hobby of growing aquarium plants in-vitro (enclosed space with nutrient and hormone infused agar). Here I have to sterilize plant tissue without killing it, and boy let me tell you, thats not easy. Also 1 speck of anything in the jar and hours of work goes down the drain. So I'm probably overly concerned with contamination :p

    I find the math and chemistry to be quite fun with beer brewing, and former experience with chemistry from hobbies and work, so its not too challenging. What I do find hard though is the "artistic" aspect, with flavors, body (good thing there is none of that in this brew, ammirite guys? ;) I know how much you like your coronas,sol etc.), what ingredients work with what, and what have you. But I guess that will come with experience and time.
     

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