Apparently we don't brew real beer

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by RalphK, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. RalphK

    RalphK Member

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    So I commented on a youtube video how I loved this hobby...and got the following response:

    "Highlighted reply
    Michael James2 hours ago
    The US government, pushed by a bunch of fanatical, whacked out, suffragettes caused Prohibition in America in the early 20th century. Not to burst your bubble, but there's not too much science or art involved in making homebrew. Homebrew instructions and recipes are based on producing low quality, distillers beer and Prohibition beer, not ale and lager. Distillers beer is produced from single infusion and high modified, malt. Prohibition beer is an authentic style of beer made from malt syrup. The science and art of brewing are in producing ale and lager. The method that homebrewers are taught to use to produce ale and lager cannot produce the types of beer. It is chemically and enzymatically impossible to produce ale and lager by soaking malt at one temperature. To make ale and lager with the homebrew method malt would need to contain magical properties in order for low temperature activated enzymes to work during a single, high temperature rest without denaturing, which is impossible. Strike and target temperature are useless for producing ale due to the way that enzymes work. Homebrew instructions skip conversion, dextrinization and gelatinization and without the steps ale and lager cannot be produced. Alpha is responsible for liquefaction, saccharification, dextrinization and gelatinization. Beta is responsible for conversion, 60C. Beta converts simple sugar, glucose released when Alpha liquefies amylose, into complex types of sugar, maltose and maltotriose, which are the types of sugar that produces ale and lager. Dextrinization and gelatinization occurs when Alpha liquefies amylopectin. Amylopectin is hard, heat resistant, complex starch that makes up the tips of malt, amylopectin is the richest starch in malt. Amylopectin contains A and B limit dextrin which are tasteless, nonfermenting, types of sugar responsible for body and mouthfeel in beer. The temperatures used to make homebrew aren't high enough to cause the starch to burst before Alpha denatures and the richest starch in malt is thrown out with the spent mash. To take advantage of amylopectin mash is boiled as in the decoction method. When Alpha liquefies amylopectin, dextrinization and gelatinization occurs. The only time dextrinization occurs in the homebrew method happens when amylose contains a 1-6 link in the starch chain, which is extremely, rare. Beer dries and thins out when dextrinization and gelatinization do not occur. An entirely different brewing method and under modified, low protein, malt are used for producing ale and lager. Step mashing under modified, malt produces pseudo ale and lager. The triple decoction method produces authentic ale and lager. Soaking malt at one temperature produces moonshiners beer. Click on Gladfield Malt's website and find American Malt, the spec sheet for the malt is on the page. There are several acronyms and numbers listed on the spec sheet. Part way down on the spec sheet is Kolbach. The Kolbach number determines level of modification. Malt, 40 Kolbach and lower is under modified, brewers grade, malt. Malt above 40 Kolbach is high modified, distillers grade, malt. A malt spec sheet comes with each bag of malt and it is used for determining the quality of malt before it is purchased. There is your first lesson in the science department. To increase alcohol content soak high modified, malt at 66C for one hour. Alpha releases the highest amount of glucose, as possible, within an hour from amylose at 66C. The more glucose, the more alcohol. Glucose is responsible for primary fermentation. Back in the 70s a bunch of advertisers working for the homebrew business invented Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) and they renamed distillers beer and Prohibition beer, real ale, and that is why homebrewers believe that they produce ale. Homebrew contests, medals and ribbons are the hook, line and sinker."


    I had a good chuckle. I don't debate on the internet, because it's pointless. But I thought I would share it with all of my fellow homebrewers, for sh!ts and giggles.
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Dang! I always thought there was some magic going on when making beer!

    Goofus's BS detector was obviously malfunctioning when he wrote that article. I love how he refutes his own thesis by describing exactly what happens when we make wort.
     
  3. SabreSteve

    SabreSteve Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't make it through. Too long. Can somebody give me a concise, coherent version of what he's trying to say?
     
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  4. BarbarianBrewer

    BarbarianBrewer Well-Known Member

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    It's just a Russian FSB Troll trying to tear apart the home brewing communities! :p
     
  5. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Now I think we can all understand what our wives feel like when they roll their eyes and tell us we're "mansplaining" . :D :D :D
     
  6. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I think he essentially lumped all homebrewing into the categories of extract and single-infusion all-grain brewing. It's true that there's a difference in "brewer's" malt and "highly modified" malt we use to get good efficiency with single infusions and the enzymatic processes that occur in mashing methods other than single infusion can yield a richer, more complex product, but to assume that no homebrewers understand or use the methods he describes as necessary to make "real" ale or lager is haughty, condescending bullshit.
     
  7. SabreSteve

    SabreSteve Well-Known Member

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    So if I do extract, partial mash or BIAB then I don't brew "real beer"?
     
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  8. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Apparently some folks will contend exactly that. :rolleyes:
    And I think we'd agree that a more complex process, properly executed, will probably yield a better beer, but if it's the case that single-infusion can't produce "real" ale or lager, then there are thousands of small and medium-sized craft breweries who are selling very overpriced homebrew. :D :D
     
  9. SabreSteve

    SabreSteve Well-Known Member

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    I mean at the end of the day if it tastes good then who cares?
     
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  10. Ward Chillington

    Ward Chillington Well-Known Member

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    Ahh...RDWHAHB....alotta big deals didn't know what yeast was pre-prohibition either! Tell Mr. James his understanding of Prohibition, let alone American history, is very simplistic despite his vocabulary and ability to cut and paste!
     
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  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    It certainly produces a more consistent beer at the lowest possible production cost. There is an argument for Coors as the highest quality beer in the world. That does not mean it's the best.

    And don't feed the trolls.
     
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  12. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I think I feel dumber now for reading almost half of that.
     
  13. SabreSteve

    SabreSteve Well-Known Member

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    Brings this to mind INSULT.jpg
     
  14. RalphK

    RalphK Member

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    My response to his post was, and I quote:"hahahahahahahahaha"
    I left it at that. It tastes like beer, it smells like beer, it has the same effect as beer so it must be a duck.
     
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  15. Rudibrew

    Rudibrew Active Member

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    damn,im gonna quit homebrew.
    ;):rolleyes:
     
  16. RalphK

    RalphK Member

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    before you do...I'd like to taste some of your non-beer:);)
     
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  17. BarbarianBrewer

    BarbarianBrewer Well-Known Member

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    Like War and Peace, I have yet to make it though the whole thing but, I believe the gist of what he is saying is that because we use better ingredients we aren't brewing real beer. By that definition anyone who has done anything since the invention of the wheel is just cheating.
     
  18. RalphK

    RalphK Member

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    So I read through it again. a good laugh is the only appropriate response. For example his statement about Kolbach is wrong. I looked it up.


    "Kolbach Index is a measure of the extent of protein modification in beer. It comprises the assessment of total soluble protein in wort as a percentage of the total protein measureable in the malt. This assessment is as performed in the Congress mash. See congress mash. When simpler infusion laboratory mashes are used, the equivalent parameter is referred to either as the Soluble Nitrogen Ratio or the S/T value.

    The typical value for the Kolbach index in suitably modified malt is between 38% and 42%. Various claims are made concerning the relationship of this parameter to quality aspects of beer such as haze stability and foam. The reality is that the index is nothing more than a gauge of the extent to which proteolysis has occurred during malting. See proteolysis. It reveals nothing about the nature of the solubilized proteins and whether they are or are not problematic or beneficial.

    Charles W. Bamforth"
     
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  19. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    We had a guy like that on here a few years back was on the heavy side of the sciency end pretty much saying your doing it all wrong. I thought of him when I read the comment sounded just like him.
    He's not here Any more :D:D!
    Maybe took the hobby too seriously:p.
     
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  20. RalphK

    RalphK Member

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    This is a serious hobby though ;):D:D
     
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