Amber/Red Lager for the Guys

[BilltownBrewingCo]

I've always brewed for me and my very few hop head and/or good beer appreciating buddies. This beer is an attempt to bridge the gap between them, and the Busch Light guys. Yuengling Lager is a beer that they all seem to appreciate. Also, my ol' man is a corn farmer in Iowa, so this provides an opportunity for me to incorporate his grain into my beer. I'm not exactly looking for a Yuengling clone, but looking for a session-able (if not crush-able) lager that's red, crystal clear and has some flavor.

Recipe:

Grain Bill-
5lbs- German RedX (12 L)
4lbs- American Pale 2-Row (1.8L)
2lbs- American Victory (28 L)
2lbs- Milled Iowa Gold (Corn) (.08L)

Hop Schedule-
60 Minutes- .5oz Cascade
10 Minutes- 1oz Cluster

Yeast-
Mangrove Jack M84 (Bohemian Lager Yeast)

Fermentation-
50 Degrees 2 weeks
65 degrees 4 days (D-rest)
Rack to secondary
Crash 5 degrees daily to 40 degrees
40 degrees for 3 weeks- Gelatin after 2

I like to bottle condition, so will likely need to add a smidgen more yeast along with the bottling sugar.

 

[J A]

Looks good. I like the Victory in there, but I might use a little less just to keep it from getting too sweet. Cluster and Saaz is my go-to for American style beers but the Cascade might be interesting.
I do a Belgian Pale Ale with a very mild yeast that's similar in character to what you're aiming for and everybody really loves it.

 

[Hogarthe]

Looks good. I personally wouldn't use cluster for that beer, I get catty flavor from cluster. I would prefer something like Hallertau or saaz.

 

[Nosybear]

Go for it. I use Cluster in my Kentucky Common to good effect (too much, as Hogarthe says, produces "catty", a little produces more of a currant-like flavor, and do use it as the boil hop). Stylistically it looks more like a Czech Amber than a Yuengling (advertised as a classic American lager). So here's my advice: Use the Cluster at 60 minutes, the Cascade at 10. And you'll have a hybrid. Should be a good beer.

 

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

It looks good although maybe too much victory malt in my opinion. I find Red X to be very powerful on it's own so splitting it with two row is a good call. I agree with the above note of swapping the cluser and cascade additions.

 

[BOB357]

I don't get anything catty with Cluster and find them to be interchangeable with Cascade in light to moderately hopped lagers. Being a landrace hop, they were the go to hop in many American Lagers for quite some time.

 

[BilltownBrewingCo]

Thank you all for the input. Upon further research, and with some feedback from you all and some other forums, I am changing thigns up. Remember, i'm not looking necessarily for a yuengling clone, just a good beer along those lines.

Changes:
11lbs RedX
2lbs of Corn Grits (Said milled previously, but I'm just grinding corn from our grain bin)
2oz of Midnight Wheat

60 minutes- 1oz of Cluster (pellets)
15 minutes- 1/2oz of Cascade (Whole)
5 minutes- 1/2oz of Cascade (Whole)

 

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

In my opinion, that's way too much red x unless you want a really malty beer with some fruity malt characteristics. In my experience 100% red x beers are very bold which I'm not sure that's what you're going for. I like to go with 50/50 pilsner and red x for base but maybe that's just me...

 

[BilltownBrewingCo]

In my opinion, that's way too much red x unless you want a really malty beer with some fruity malt characteristics. In my experience 100% red x beers are very bold which I'm not sure that's what you're going for. I like to go with 50/50 pilsner and red x for base but maybe that's just me...

My concern with splitting the malt 50/50 is that I will get an orange beer instead of red. How are these 50/50 beers turning out based on appearance?

 

[J A]

I'd go back to the original recipe. Brew for flavor and be happy with the color you get. Be sure to do a full "cereal mash" with the corn. I used quotation marks because as long as it's fully cooked you don't really need the barley malt portion of the traditional cereal mash.

 

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

My concern with splitting the malt 50/50 is that I will get an orange beer instead of red. How are these 50/50 beers turning out based on appearance?

Well my version is a Red Rye beer. I use 4 oz of chocolate rye to get the color back to Red but I would normally just use carafa special to get the color where I want it. You should be able to use the midnight wheat to do that as well. I think mine calculates out to around 16 SRM

 

[Nosybear]

Thank you all for the input. Upon further research, and with some feedback from you all and some other forums, I am changing thigns up. Remember, i'm not looking necessarily for a yuengling clone, just a good beer along those lines.

Changes:
11lbs RedX
2lbs of Corn Grits (Said milled previously, but I'm just grinding corn from our grain bin)
2oz of Midnight Wheat

60 minutes- 1oz of Cluster (pellets)
15 minutes- 1/2oz of Cascade (Whole)
5 minutes- 1/2oz of Cascade (Whole)

Maybe find a Yuengling clone - there are many out there, some good and some bad - and start from there? Here's one I did recently:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/743819/jngling

Note there is no "crystal," rather Caramunich. When I taste Yuengling (rarely, since they don't distribute where I live), I don't get caramel, I get malts and a very dry beer. And full disclosure - other than tasting samples, this one isn't finished, although the samples were pretty close and very drinkable. I'm not familiar with Red X so I looked it up - the maltster recommends some pilsner (you may want to use six-row to move more in the direction of Yuengling). All things considered, your beer should be good.

 

[AHarper]

I have a Red Eye for you using Red X...
Though it isn't a lager but an Irish Red Ale
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/760592/ale-ian-redeye

 

[BilltownBrewingCo]

I'd go back to the original recipe. Brew for flavor and be happy with the color you get. Be sure to do a full "cereal mash" with the corn. I used quotation marks because as long as it's fully cooked you don't really need the barley malt portion of the traditional cereal mash.

Thanks for mentioning this, as it isn't something I've done in the past. How would you recommend doing the "cereal mash"? It's basically 150 degree rest followed by a full boil separate from the barley mash, then added to the barely mash prior to boiling, correct?

 

[Nosybear]

Thanks for mentioning this, as it isn't something I've done in the past. How would you recommend doing the "cereal mash"? It's basically 150 degree rest followed by a full boil separate from the barley mash, then added to the barely mash prior to boiling, correct?

Yep. Boil until you can eat 'em like grits, likely about 45 minutes. Recommended: 20% by weight of barley in the cereal mash. Keep enough water in the cereal to make a thick gruel.

 

[J A]

The way I do rice or corn that's not flaked is to pretend it's a decoction but I don't use barley along with it, just cook it seperately and add it.
I start the cooking process using more water than would be typical if you were just eating it and try to time it so that it's done cooking about the time I need to add it to the mash. For the mash, I start with a protein rest and then use the boiling-hot rice or corn mush to bring the whole mash up to 148, using more boiling or cool water to control the strike. If you do the calculation with a decoction calculator or just use the mash-infusion calculator, subbing the weight of the cereal grain for the weight of part of the boiling water needed to raise the temp, you can nail the temp pretty much dead on.
If you list your preferred mash schedule and typical water requirements, I could probably get it figured right down to the quantities, temps and timing for you.

 

[BilltownBrewingCo]

Awesome! Thanks for the advice guys. I am going to do some reading and get this recipie nailed down, but once I do I will check back with y'all on the quantities of everything. Thanks!

 

[BilltownBrewingCo]

Ok.

Done some research, thought about what I'm looking for a bit more... and this is the recipe I think I will brew. Also- bumped this to a 10 gallon recipe, as it will likely be our lake day swill. Thoughts welcome as always:

Pale 2-Row- 15 lbs.
Corn Grits- 5 lbs
Caramel 120L- 2 lbs

1oz Cluster- 60 Minutes
1 oz Cascade- 30 Minutes
2 oz Cascade- 5 minutes

Yeast- Saflager 34/70

 

[GFHomebrew]

Ok.

Done some research, thought about what I'm looking for a bit more... and this is the recipe I think I will brew. Also- bumped this to a 10 gallon recipe, as it will likely be our lake day swill. Thoughts welcome as always:

Pale 2-Row- 15 lbs.
Corn Grits- 5 lbs
Caramel 120L- 2 lbs

1oz Cluster- 60 Minutes
1 oz Cascade- 30 Minutes
2 oz Cascade- 5 minutes

Yeast- Saflager 34/70

Grist is good in my books I do love me some 10% Vienna in my beers ale lager you name it. I'd go noble on the hop front for more traditional spicey floral notes but that's my bias. Any ideas on your mash schedule?

 

[J A]

Note there is no "crystal," rather Caramunich. When I taste Yuengling (rarely, since they don't distribute where I live), I don't get caramel, I get malts and a very dry beer.

CaraMunich isn't fundamentally different from Crystal malt. I do find the flavor contribution more pleasing but it adds plenty of dextrin and sweetness.
Your Yuengling comment got me thinking...I happen to have a couple of bottles in the fridge that my brother had brought me and i decided open one and see if my impressions from last time I tried one of these (very different from your description) would be different.
When I tried one a few weeks back, I thought it was almost too sweet. That's what I'd expect from corn and crystal malt. Trying one now and looking past the initial impression of corny sweetness, I do get a clean finish like you allude to but it's not a beer that I'd think of as particularly crisp or dry. To me, it has a slightly estery nose with the clean malt balancing the light caramel/corn sweetness. There's a touch of noble hops in the aroma and a reasonable balance of slight bitterness in the flavor. The longer it sits in the glass, the more the grainy malt comes through - definitely seems more American/6-row and not German-style Pilsner/Vienna malt flavor.
It's good beer, though. One to aspire to.