Mash pH not making sense

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by Craigerrr, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I printed out my recipe for tomorrow's brew day, and as per my previous batch, pH is listed as 5.36. When I made a minor edit to the recipe, the pH went down to 4.10. when I reduced the lactic acid to zero, the pH went up to like 4.35, then I added a LOT of baking soda, and very little change. Something is not right here. I also created a new identical test recipe, and the mash pH is the same, ridiculously low. I am going to go ahead and brew the recipe as per previous, but. I am doing so without any confidence whatsoever...
     
  2. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if there's any roasted malts in there but others have found checking if them malts are listed at base or roast malts changed PH.
     
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  3. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Can I have a link to the recipe/water calc? I suspect it's something simple, like 'base malt' instead of 'roast malt' in the bottom portion of the malt bill in the water calc. (I know that's what TrialBen said, too, but I really think that's it!).
     
  4. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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  5. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Something else I'm noticing that makes no sense is the OG, I am getting conflicting numbers
    Shouldn't post boil, and OG be the same number?
    I am getting 1059 in the heading, and 1062 down below.

    THis is not a new recipe, I have brewed this 3 or 4 times now...

    OG.JPG
     
  6. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    I think one of the issues could be the black malt, added late, and the candi sugar not calculating properly:
    upload_2019-9-13_8-23-49.png

    I'll dig into this and see what's going on.
     
  7. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Yes- but you have 11.2 gallons as your post boil volume, but 11 gallons as the batch size. Fix that, and your OG should match.
     
  8. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    In the water calc, this is the error giving you that very low mash pH:
    upload_2019-9-13_8-31-54.png

    I have no idea why that did that, and I will go into the system and make sure it's in our database as 'roasted malt'- but if you change that to roasted, the pH will jump way up.
     
  9. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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  10. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I've had the issue when a recipe has become "unlinked" from an equipment profile, too. Might check that one as well.
     
  11. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Nosy

    I checked, the recipe is linked. As I checked a remembered linking it to my new profile for my 10 gallon system.
    The only other change I made was changing from dehusked carafa, and the regular carafe.
    Other thank scaling this recipe, and these two changes the recipe is the same as it was before.

    I have been sitting on the sidelines reading all of the posts complaining about the improvements to the recipe builder. I am now kind of cranky about this. It also makes me wonder if my huge gravity miss on my last brew day was BF software related.

    I read that everything had been reverted back, but that pre and post boil volume thing is still there along with the calculate button. If something like this were to be software automated, it should not need input from me. I had to fudge my preboil volume, to get the post boil volume to match my batch size. I kind of want to go back to doing my water calculations manually, but this leaves me scratching my head about the recipe builder in general. I can tell you from previous brew documentation that the OG was, and should be 1062, the 1060 listed in the stats leaves me wondering what else is not being calculated correctly.

    Sorry to be cranky, but I am a little unnerved about my brew session tonight...
     
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  12. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I just figured out the 1062/1060 discrepancy. I unchecked the late addition on the candi sugar, then the numbers matched.
    It is a late BOIL addition, the gravity points should be included in the post boil gravity, why do they not get factored in when you check late addition box?
     
  13. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I have unchecked the late addition for the candi sugar, and now see that my pH has plummeted again to 4.28.
    I'm sure that it's wrong, mas this is frustrating.
    Done with this for now, I will post later tonight or tomorrow to advise what the actual pH was.
    Cheers
     
  14. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    The developers still haven't found a graceful way to include late additions. Scenarios need to be addressed:
    - Pre-boil gravity and hop utilization when sugar is added during the boil or at whirlpool
    - Changes in gravity when water or other liquid is added
    - Pre- and post-boil gravity and hop utilization when sugar is added to the fermentor
    - ABV calculation when sugar is added to the fermentor
    For all of these it will be necessary to record when sugar or water is added (pre-boil, boil, post boil and fermentor are the scenarios I envision). Pre-boil is easy, it's already included in the pre-boil gravity and the OG prediction. Sugars added during the boil do not affect the pre-boil gravity but will affect the post boil gravity as well as utilization of hops, which may be difficult to model because there's a big difference in utilization impact if the sugars are added at 1 minute vs. 50. Sugars after the boil do not affect pre- or post-boil gravity but they do affect OG for ABV calculations, as do sugars added to the fermentor. It's not easy and in some cases the answer may be do the math by hand. But I can build a "dilution" calculator in Excel that will model late additions so it's not impossible.
     
  15. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate the thoughtful response. This actually a good thing, I have learned something today. I learned that the software here is a very helpful tool, but at the end of the day I need to become a brewer. To do that, I need to use the tools available, and make them work for me.

    Sorry for my earlier frustration Yooper, I appreciate all you do.
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the fold, my friend.
     
  17. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I am not yet able to snatch the pebble... not yet...
     
  18. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to fall into the curmudgeonly "read a book, lepton," class but at the same time, I don't like the philosophy of "Siri, brew beer." You can make beer wit no knowledge whatsoever. In fact, I have a recipe I use to do just that, all you measure is the water. But to brew well, there is basic knowledge required and you can't put all of that into software. Once you realize this, and you have, you'll learn what you need to know, basic stuff like predicting gravity using points or dilution ratios. Will it make your beer better? No. But once you start to learn it, you will brew better beer simply because you will know what you are doing.
     
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  19. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I have tried to change the carafa III from a base malt to a roasted malt a few times, but it doesn't seem to want to stay changed.

    @Yooper could you please look into this for me?
     
  20. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    Are you puting it in from inventory or the big list? Acid malt shows as a base in water calc if you enter it into your recipe from your inventory. If you enter it into recipe from main list it stays as acidulated. Definitely an issue here that hasn't been resolved. This is not new.
     

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