High Gravity Lager

[Brewer #479341]

Hi Guys,,
I'm a beginner brewer and I have started my 1st brew on May 8th. I have recipe for 6.18 kg Malteurop, 1.09 gr Amarillo liq CO2 Extract hops, 12 gr of calcium chloride, 1 gr of Zinc Sulphate, and 4 sachets of SafLager W-34/70. Initially, I targeted my OG on 15 Plato but it turns out to got lower than that due to chaos mashing process D lol). I used Grainfather system for Mash tun, fermentor and chiller. So, I set up 3 step mashing process, i.e 62 deg for 10 min, 65 deg for 30 min, and 78 deg for 1 min and then sparging. However, I accidentally pour the crusted malt too fast. I added the malt before the command from the panel to put the malt. So, basically I put the malt in the 20 L of water (which already has been added CaCl2) before the mash tun asked me to. So, the chaos things start to happened. as, the mashing process is unmeasurable. it started to not followed the temperature and timer set for those mashing steps. However, I still decided to continue it. after that, when I drained the spent grain from mashing I only got roughly 10 L of wort so I sparged with water and then I got total volume 20 L (while my target is 25 L). and then I boiled it to 100 deg for 60 min. Unfortunately, the temperature only reached 98-99 deg celcius because the bottom surface of the mash tun was starting to burn, the heating wasn't perfect. But I still continue the boiling and on the Min-0 of boiling, I add the hops 1.09 gr. But during the boiling (as it wasnt perfect boiling), I still saw some hops were not dissolved yet. Then after the boiling has finished, I transferred it to whirlpool, and the ZnSO4 and rest it for 15 minutes. After that, I filtered the wort through 3 nominal filter set (10 micron, 5 micron and 1 micron) and to wort plate chiller then it went to the fermentor. I got total cold wort for 20 L. I did the analysis of the wort before pitching and turns out I got 11.12 plato for the OG. so I compensate with liq sugar (which again wrongly calculate) and the OG overshoot to 17.71 plato. To help out the fermentation, then I did high pitch rate (4 sachets of W-34/70 pitched at 11 deg cel). Suprisingly, until now (already D-rest and about to cold crash) the fermentation was healthy. Everyday, I analyzed it with Anton Paar and the fermentation was active. No off flavor (only small hint of diacetyl and sulphury) but again it's still "green beer". I tried to taste it after filter it with Kieselguhr. Though there's no off aroma (very soft), the taste is quite sour and the bitterness is very low. Is that because it's still green beer (not finished with D-rest) and hasn't matured yet or what? I'm worried that the taste will be ruined later (for example, it's too sour and there's no bitterness)? I appreciate for any comments or advise. Thank you and Please forgive me for the mess I made during this 1 st brew

 

[Minbari]

What temp are you doing the d-rest at?

With 4 packs of yeast , you should be fine, that is a decent pitch. Just remember a cold lager fermentation is slow and takes a while..

 

[J A]

Far too many variables to address what might or might not be wrong with this beer. You'll have to wait to see if it proves to be okay.
I would only comment that this is definitely not the sort of beer that is good for a first brew. Make some batches of simple ale using a dependable and undemanding yeast strain and figure out your system and then tackle a more complex beer like this.

 

[Bigbre04]

that was a challenge to read.

post a recipe and it will help things a lot. you need to get your calculations sorted out.

I brew a lot of lagers and would happily help but it is hard without a recipe and i am not rereading that word soup.

I am surprised that you are using Plato, cryo hops, and an anton paar on a roughly 5 gal system those are usually commercial things. especially on your first go of it. Are you using glycol? This is a very advanced first setup.

Like i said happy to help just need more info.

Generally speaking i would use a spunding valve on a high grav lager.

i generally increase temp from fermenation(~14c for me while spunding) to 20c when i hit 60-65% attenuation. but i am also taking gravs every day and have pro level temp control.

this is my standard golden lager that i double batch atleast once a month.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1427656

this is my imperial golden lager(dryhopped) that is currently on and is dangerously good.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1622459

https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/double-lager-second-attempt.18075/

 

[Sandy Feet]

Dude, use some paragraphs. I can't make heads or tails of what you want.

 

[J A]

Dude, use some paragraphs. I can't make heads or tails of what you want.

Possible ESL situation...
Ultimately it seems to be inexperience wanting reassurance. No specific problem noted, just OP not knowing what to expect - jumped in way over his/her head.

 

[Donoroto]

Indeed, please forgive the OP as English may not be the first language.

There are some misunderstandings maybe.

Mashing: Putting crushed grain into cold (or ‘not hot enough’ water is no problem. But eventually the mixture (grain + water) must stay for some time between about 62 and 70 celsius. (Usually 1 hour)

If Malteurop is ‘malt extract’ (can be liquid or dry powder) the Mashing is not needed at all.

Hops are added as the boil starts (usually), at 0 minutes of the boil, but if you plan to boil for 60 minutes, the brewers say that it is a “60 minute hops addition”. A “0 minute hops addition” is at the end of the boil. In any case, the hops do not dissolve! The pellets may break apart into dust, but they are easily visible.

Boiling need not be at 100 C. My home is at 350 meters altitude, water boils at 98. Your goal for boiling is ‘movement’, lots of bubbles. Temperature is not as important.

It is not unusual that you have good fermentation. Every step you explain is mostly correct! It will be beer.

You cannot entirely predict the final flavor until the beer is fully fermented and carbonated. It will often taste a bit harsh (green) until carbonation is complete.

Do not worry, it will turn out OK. And you learned some things!!

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

@Brewer #479341, Welcome to the forum and to home brewing! Sounds like you had a real adventure with your first batch. It's amazing the way we can abuse the brewing process and every time (almost) we wind up with beer! So, while this probably won't be your best beer ever, I'd say just ferment it out and see what you get in the end. This is how we all learned the craft.

For your next batch I'd recommend simplifying your process as much as possible. For instance I don't think you need the 3 different filters plus the Kieselguhr (Diatomaceous Earth). There are much easier ways to get clear beer at the home brewing level*. Plus, each time your wort touches another piece of equipment (post-boil) there is a slight chance of introducing bacteria or some other nasty organism. Once you get experience with the basic process, you can then start introducing more advanced techniques.

* My methods for clear beer are:
1) 1/2 tablet of Whirlfloc or Irish Moss near the end of the boil
2) Double-mesh strainer to filter out hops when transferring from the boil kettle to the fermenter
3) Cold crash for 2-3 days prior to bottling/kegging
4) I don't, but some brewers also use gelatin or other fining agent.

Good luck and keep us posted on your brewing adventures!

 

[Brewer #480117]

Hi Guys,,
I'm a beginner brewer and I have started my 1st brew on May 8th. I have recipe for 6.18 kg Malteurop, 1.09 gr Amarillo liq CO2 Extract hops, 12 gr of calcium chloride, 1 gr of Zinc Sulphate, and 4 sachets of SafLager W-34/70. Initially, I targeted my OG on 15 Plato but it turns out to got lower than that due to chaos mashing process D lol). I used Grainfather system for Mash tun, fermentor and chiller. So, I set up 3 step mashing process, i.e 62 deg for 10 min, 65 deg for 30 min, and 78 deg for 1 min and then sparging. However, I accidentally pour the crusted malt too fast. I added the malt before the command from the panel to put the malt. So, basically I put the malt in the 20 L of water (which already has been added CaCl2) before the mash tun asked me to. So, the chaos things start to happened. as, the mashing process is unmeasurable. it started to not followed the temperature and timer set for those mashing steps. However, I still decided to continue it. after that, when I drained the spent grain from mashing I only got roughly 10 L of wort so I sparged with water and then I got total volume 20 L (while my target is 25 L). and then I boiled it to 100 deg for 60 min. Unfortunately, the temperature only reached 98-99 deg celcius because the bottom surface of the mash tun was starting to burn, the heating wasn't perfect. But I still continue the boiling and on the Min-0 of boiling, I add the hops 1.09 gr. But during the boiling (as it wasnt perfect boiling), I still saw some hops were not dissolved yet. Then after the boiling has finished, I transferred it to whirlpool, and the ZnSO4 and rest it for 15 minutes. After that, I filtered the wort through 3 nominal filter set (10 micron, 5 micron and 1 micron) and to wort plate chiller then it went to the fermentor. I got total cold wort for 20 L. I did the analysis of the wort before pitching and turns out I got 11.12 plato for the OG. so I compensate with liq sugar (which again wrongly calculate) and the OG overshoot to 17.71 plato. To help out the fermentation, then I did high pitch rate (4 sachets of W-34/70 pitched at 11 deg cel). Suprisingly, until now (already D-rest and about to cold crash) the fermentation was healthy. Everyday, I analyzed it with Anton Paar and the fermentation was active. No off flavor (only small hint of diacetyl and sulphury) but again it's still "green beer". I tried to taste it after filter it with Kieselguhr. Though there's no off aroma (very soft and geometry dash 3d), the taste is quite sour and the bitterness is very low. Is that because it's still green beer (not finished with D-rest) and hasn't matured yet or what? I'm worried that the taste will be ruined later (for example, it's too sour and there's no bitterness)? I appreciate for any comments or advise. Thank you and Please forgive me for the mess I made during this 1 st brew

Hello,
Your beer is probably not ruined. The low bitterness is likely from weak boil + very small hop addition + high final gravity (17.7°P reduces perceived bitterness). The slight sour/sharp taste is most likely “green beer” character from young lager, yeast, sulfur, and early filtration — not necessarily infection.

Since fermentation stayed healthy and you don’t have strong off-smells (vinegar, yogurt, rotten, etc.), finish the D-rest, cold crash, carbonate, and let it lager for a few weeks before judging it. SafLager W-34/70 is very forgiving, so there’s a good chance the beer will improve significantly with maturation.

 

[Dave Y]

Hello,
Your beer is probably not ruined. The low bitterness is likely from weak boil + very small hop addition + high final gravity (17.7°P reduces perceived bitterness). The slight sour/sharp taste is most likely “green beer” character from young lager, yeast, sulfur, and early filtration — not necessarily infection.

Since fermentation stayed healthy and you don’t have strong off-smells (vinegar, yogurt, rotten, etc.), finish the D-rest, cold crash, carbonate, and let it lager for a few weeks before judging it. SafLager W-34/70 is very forgiving, so there’s a good chance the beer will improve significantly with maturation.

I agree with the previous posters and this one hits home. I did a Czech style amber lager recently and I did not like it fresh out of the kettle. As in, I went back 2 straight days to be sure because I was going to dump it. I have never had a flavor turnaround like this, but it's lagered several weeks and now it's ready for the taps and it's actually quite good.

So be patient, let it lager.
You have detailed notes, so you can go back and review your process and procedures.
There is a lot of good help here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/all-in-one-brewhouse-help-thread.17832/ One of the main reasons I suggest this is that all in one systems can be finicky and a little slower to convert in the mash. This includes the step mash. So general instructions that say "mash 20 minutes at 132F" are like the Pirate Code(tm)

They be more like guidelines than actual rules...

I would strongly suggest picking up a couple all grain "kits" online to work with. Here is a really fun fact: Just because you bought a kit beer, doesn't mean you can't add some other stuff to it, or use different hops/yeast if you want, but the kits as delivered will give you a good base to work with your processes.

 

[Bigbre04]

Hello,
Your beer is probably not ruined. The low bitterness is likely from weak boil + very small hop addition + high final gravity (17.7°P reduces perceived bitterness). The slight sour/sharp taste is most likely “green beer” character from young lager, yeast, sulfur, and early filtration — not necessarily infection.

Since fermentation stayed healthy and you don’t have strong off-smells (vinegar, yogurt, rotten, etc.), finish the D-rest, cold crash, carbonate, and let it lager for a few weeks before judging it. SafLager W-34/70 is very forgiving, so there’s a good chance the beer will improve significantly with maturation.

17.7p will likely end up over 8%, so with a lower hopping rate you will expect some booziness in the flavor. If it is off putting or too strong you can always let it age further!