Whirlpool experiment (beer 30 idea)

[Frugalbrewing]

Got an idea after seeing all the whirlpool posts and making the most out of your hops. I don't have oxygen free transfer for dry hopping so I'm going whirlpool to see what it can do. I'm curious.

Current system is an BIAB in an 20QT stock pot, 5 gallon plastic fermenter.

I lost the thread online about the max time to steep hops at whirlpool. I remember someone saying after 80mins steeping from 170-180F is the most efficient. After some thinking, my coffee pot runs 170-180F so hears the idea:

During my mash/boil process, I'm going to steep my hops in a $8 thrift store coffee maker while I'm brewing and add the hops at 170F during wort chilling.

After reading some commercial breweries whirlpool additions. Scaled down to an 5 gallon batch, I came up with 6oz hops for my coffee maker steep.

I run 30min boils for brewing to save on propane, so for my 30min boil schedule I'm thinking:
30min - 1oz Magnum
5min - 1oz amarillo/citra
0min @ 170F - 6oz amarillo/citra

Going to run Lutra Kveik @ 85F using an walmart fish tank heater ( fermenter inside an bigger bucket of water)

Brewing this coffee maker ipa saturday 11/26. I'll report back once I get an idea. Might be good idea for people who want to get the most out hops for APA and IPA's without using as many hops or more hops for that hop taste.

Curious: has anyone done this method or something close to it.

 

[MaxStout]

First off, welcome to the forum!

I too lack the ability to do low oxygen transfers and I wanted to see if doing hopstands would be a viable alternative to dry hopping. I ferment in Brew Buckets, and don't like popping off those big lids during ferm.

My process is a little different from what you propose. At flameout, I remove the hop spider with boil hops, and drop in the immersion chiller to sanitize but don't turn on the water yet. The thermal mass of the IC will drop the temp quite a bit initially and after about 10 minutes the wort temp is somewhere around 180F. I drop in the whirlpool hops contained in a fine-mesh bag and stir. I also move the hops bag around with the circular flow. I do this for about 30 minutes, and by this time the wort temp is somewhere around 160. I then remove the hops bag and begin chilling with the IC.

I have only done two hopstands (an APA and RyePA) and the result for flavor was very good, but aroma, while good, was not up to par with that of similar beers I had dry-hopped. The beers turned out well but aroma was a bit muted. Perhaps keeping the hops in the whirlpool longer may have made a difference, something I might try on the next hop-forward beer.

This is only 2 data points from one brewer, and YMMV. Keep us posted on how it goes!

 

[Sandy Feet]

The last beer, I just threw some pellets in as a flameout addition. The whirlpool was me with a long spoon and a wort chiller for 10 or 15 minutes
A hoppy liquid does sound interesting. I'd be interested to hear how it works for you.
I do wish I had dry hopped mine, but learning is a wonderful thing.

 

[Ward Chillington]

Welcome to the clubhouse Frug.....interesting concept here....are you filtering the hops? Something like a paper filter in the basket just like if you were brewing coffee?

I'm with Sandy here...toss the pellets and stir! I've been playing around with a pump idea with for whilpooling but just haven't taken the time to try it.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

What you get out of hops steeped in water will give you different results than having them in the wort.
I have found that after a 20 minute whirlpool or hop stand that you have diminishing results.
That said, I'll be interested in hearing your results.

 

[Sandy Feet]

You can run some numbers, but you might not be saving any money or not very much by running the boil for only 30 minutes. It takes fewer hops at 60 minutes, and a 15-pound tank of propane is less than $20, at least here in the Southern US.
Learning how to be frugal is a good thing, but sometimes going too far doesn't achieve anything.
i.e. I used to know somebody that would drive all over town looking for the cheapest beer. They probably spent more in gas than they saved on beer.

 

[Dornbox]

I played around with whirlpool additions as a replacement for dry hopping for a year and just never got anything that compared to even as little as a 1/2oz dry hop addition post fermentation. If you're worried about dry hoping and O2 exposure, just add the hops at the start of fermentation. The only cavate to dry hopping at the early stages of fermentation is that in large additions, you will likely get vegetal flavors from more than a 2-3 oz of hops sitting in your fermenter for more than a few days. I will still whirlpool but not as a replacement for dry hopping.

Also, like @The Brew Mentor said, you're not going to get the same extraction out of the hops using tap water as you will with beer that has a lower PH. Even if you adjust the PH of your water it might not be the same thing as beer but a touch of 10% phosphoric acid would do the trick and it's cheap. You'll want some PH strips or a PH Meter though. Good luck!

 

[The Brew Mentor]

Why not just drill a bigger hole in the bucket lid and put a rubber stopper in it?
Then as soon as you see the fermentation slowing, you could pull the bung/ stopper and add you dry hop addition.
After you add them, seal it up and give the bucket a good swirl.
That'll release more CO2 and help scrub out any oxygen you introduced during the addition.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I've been having good luck with a 140 degree hop stand for 30 minutes, do not add findings before and do not start it until 140 is reached with the lid on

 

[Frugalbrewing]

Not filtering the hops with the coffee maker filter, just using the coffee maker for an cheap regulated hot plate. My coffee maker's hot plate regulates temp around 175F.

To answer the concerns with steeping hops in water. I'm skeptical myself. I might just remove 0.5 Gallons after mash and start steeping with that liquid vs using tap water.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

The wort will need to boil at some point

 

[GFHomebrew]

Awesome stuff @Frugalbrewing I too boil 30mins I personally haven't noticed a difference but might be me.

Anything to get more out of them exy hops good luck I'll be keen to see what you find.

My WP method is overnight no chill Hop steep so I'm no help to you .

 

[Donoroto]

Not filtering the hops with the coffee maker filter, just using the coffee maker for an cheap regulated hot plate. My coffee maker's hot plate regulates temp around 175F.

To answer the concerns with steeping hops in water. I'm skeptical myself. I might just remove 0.5 Gallons after mash and start steeping with that liquid vs using tap water.

That might end up being very similar to adding hops to the boil right at the start.

The heat converts the hop 'stuff' to bitterness. Higher heat (= boil) does it faster, lower heat (175) is a little slower.

If you want bitter, you'll get it, it will be nice.

If you want aroma, add hops to the fermenter with the yeast, or (better) wait 3 days and add hops during fermentation. The yeast will almost instantly scavenge the tiny amount of oxygen possibly introduced.