Which recipe should I make??

[Donoroto]

Reviving an old thread instead of a new hefe thread! @Donoroto

Thinking that i need to make another hefe next week.

adjusted my previous hefe recipe a fair bit.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1643579

Debating between using great western 2row for the additional DP or using Pils. I dont know that you would notice the difference flavor wise, but the mash may go a little easier??? what do yall think?

I am thinking i will mash in at 149f

stick with the 165g of yeast

knock at 68 and let it naturally rise to 72-74f

Buncha comments:

Bump up the sulphate and reduce the chloride for a 3:1 ratio SO4:CL-, or at least closer to that than what you have. A Hefe has almost no hop presence.

Drop the perle for a noble hop, like hallertau mittlefrueh. You don’t need much. And put it in at 45 minutes only, all at once.

The melanoidin is kinda important, as I know you cannot decoct with your setup. Order some at retail if needed. It will make a definite difference. Maris otter is better than nothing, but not by a lot.

Mashing at 148 will increase abv and mute the sweet malt of the style. If possible, 30-40 minutes at 145 then about the same time at 156-158. I know this lengthens your brew day a bit but the ‘step up’ can be as slow at needed. My Brewzilla takes a half hour to get from 144 to 158 (total mash time for me is around 2.5 hours, as I start at 105F). Conversion is typically complete at the 30-min mark, but the hot finish does something (desired) to the sugars. I read the newspaper during that time…

The yeast is fine, and 66 is good, at the lower end of the temperature range. Remember to let it warm when primary ferm is nearly done.

Hefeweitzen is a complex and time consuming recipe, but any customer who knows what it is will be impressed. Newbies will like the flavor and kick.

 

[Bigbre04]

Buncha comments:

Bump up the sulphate and reduce the chloride for a 3:1 ratio SO4:CL-, or at least closer to that than what you have. A Hefe has almost no hop presence.

I can try, but i dont have filtration so my water is fairly set. I only add Gypsum and CaCl2. I can bump the Gypsum from 20 to 30. I can drop the CaCl2 totally. Ill work that up in the software and post it.

Drop the perle for a noble hop, like hallertau mittlefrueh. You don’t need much. And put it in at 45 minutes only, all at once.

Perle is a noble? I dont have mittle, i have: Magnum, willamete, perle, fuggle, loral, mandarina bavaria, and sterlings on hand that are noble/noble adjacent. other then the American ipa type hops.

i figured that 14ish IBUs was fairly low either way.

The melanoidin is kinda important, as I know you cannot decoct with your setup. Order some at retail if needed. It will make a definite difference. Maris otter is better than nothing, but not by a lot.

ill add some victory does that satisfy??

Mashing at 148 will increase abv and mute the sweet malt of the style. If possible, 30-40 minutes at 145 then about the same time at 156-158. I know this lengthens your brew day a bit but the ‘step up’ can be as slow at needed. My Brewzilla takes a half hour to get from 144 to 158 (total mash time for me is around 2.5 hours, as I start at 105F). Conversion is typically complete at the 30-min mark, but the hot finish does something (desired) to the sugars. I read the newspaper during that time…

I tried that on the first batch and ran into issues with the mashes. Plus my system is very strange so while it is at 149 on the bottom of the pipe it is at 145-147 on the top and then it slowly ramps up as it recircs.

I could heat it up to 158 for 10 mins and then head up to mash out temp...thats no problem.

The yeast is fine, and 66 is good, at the lower end of the temperature range. Remember to let it warm when primary ferm is nearly done.

I would likely knock out at as close to 68 as i can get and then let it naturally warm to 73-74? looking for those banana esters.

Hefeweitzen is a complex and time consuming recipe, but any customer who knows what it is will be impressed. Newbies will like the flavor and kick.

Still dont have any grain....they are shipping me a brand new pallet since the LTL "cant find" the pallet.

 

[Bigbre04]

Spent some time messing with the water calculator. Firstly i need to get another water analysis done. Secondly my water is fairly heavy mineral wise the only thing that i am close to being able to satisfy numbers wise is Balanced 1. I am over on almost every other "preset" water profile. Eventually it would be nice to add in atleast a carbon filter, but that is not gonna happen this summer.

is there a specific profile that is preferred?

 

[Donoroto]

I can try, but i dont have filtration so my water is fairly set. I only add Gypsum and CaCl2. I can bump the Gypsum from 20 to 30. I can drop the CaCl2 totally. Ill work that up in the software and post it.

Perle is a noble? I dont have mittle, i have: Magnum, willamete, perle, fuggle, loral, mandarina bavaria, and sterlings on hand that are noble/noble adjacent. other then the American ipa type hops.

i figured that 14ish IBUs was fairly low either way.

ill add some victory does that satisfy??

I tried that on the first batch and ran into issues with the mashes. Plus my system is very strange so while it is at 149 on the bottom of the pipe it is at 145-147 on the top and then it slowly ramps up as it recircs.

I could heat it up to 158 for 10 mins and then head up to mash out temp...thats no problem.

I would likely knock out at as close to 68 as i can get and then let it naturally warm to 73-74? looking for those banana esters.


Still dont have any grain....they are shipping me a brand new pallet since the LTL "cant find" the pallet.

Fuggle might be ok. It’s fairly ‘plain’.
But it might not matter much. Not a lotta hops.

Victory is better than nothing. You don’t need a lot. For your 70-gallon batch maybe as much as 3 or 4 pounds.

For your yeast, 68 is the high end of what I suggest. Don’t let it go higher until ferm is 75% done, maybe 6 plato?

You need some Epsom Salt (magnesium sulphate). Kroger and CVS sell it, just get the unscented!

 

[Donoroto]

is there a specific profile that is preferred

Yes:
Ca 60, Mg<15, Na<30, Cl- 50, SO4 90
All plus or minus 10

 

[Bigbre04]

Fuggle might be ok. It’s fairly ‘plain’.
But it might not matter much. Not a lotta hops.

Victory is better than nothing. You don’t need a lot. For your 70-gallon batch maybe as much as 3 or 4 pounds.

For your yeast, 68 is the high end of what I suggest. Don’t let it go higher until ferm is 75% done, maybe 6 plato?

You need some Epsom Salt (magnesium sulphate). Kroger and CVS sell it, just get the unscented!

i keep epsom salt on hand!

my base water profile is:

ca 39
mg 30
na 61
cl 41
sulphate 49
alka 142
ph 7.8

i ordered a new water test kit so ill get that and send it off to ward labs. not that it will matter to this batch.

let me see if i can work the numbers you sent me into something passable for this hefe batch next week.

 

[Donoroto]

i keep epsom salt on hand!

my base water profile is:

ca 39
mg 30
na 61
cl 41
sulphate 49
alka 142
ph 7.8

i ordered a new water test kit so ill get that and send it off to ward labs. not that it will matter to this batch.

let me see if i can work the numbers you sent me into something passable for this hefe batch next week.

Just a bit of CaSO4 (Gypsum) and you'll be good. You only need 35 to 40 PPM of SO4. Everything else is in range.

 

[Bigbre04]

i will run those numbers shortly.

Im brewing batch 2 of my golden lager today. so it is a perfect time to exbeeriment...

I have to mash in twice since my system is stupid. normally i would mash in, run the recirq for an hour and then mash out, sparge, grain out, cool the wort, then mash in and repeat. this is very frustrating and time consuming. it also kills off my enzymes from the first half of the grain. I got to thinking about it and i dont think that is really needed.

On this batch i am going to stop my recirq and sparge through with 170 to rinse the bed and make up my water volume and then i will cool it down if i need to in order to get back to my 151 mash temp so that i can then mash in and repeat. I am hoping that this will shave an hour or more off of the total brew day since i wont have to spend the time heating the whole mash up and then cooling it down.

I may loose some effeciency, but saving an hour on every day is worth it.



I am also gonna be pissed if this works well and i have therefore wasted hundreds of hours mashing out the first batch....fingers crossed.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I hope it works for you. We can always find things we have done in our lives the hard way. You can't change that, but you can change what you do going forward. Don't be pissed if it works. Be happy.

 

[Bigbre04]

I hope it works for you. We can always find things we have done in our lives the hard way. You can't change that, but you can change what you do going forward. Don't be pissed if it works. Be happy.

well if nothing else so far it has shaved a ton of time off my day. already headed to boil...we shall see what the sugar gods gave me.

edit 1
i guess a ton is relative. so far it has saved me about 35 mins but also my brew yesterday was very fast....

edit 2
preboil was .2p lower then yesterday. we shall see where i end up after the boil. I am thinking that it may be worth it. even if i have to reduce my overall eff by a little bit. yesterday was 90% so even if i hit 88% its still a win.

edit 3 whirlpooling
So i actually hit the exact same OG as my last 3 batches! 11.4p and 90% eff! I think that the threat of the 2lbs of dextrose that i had already pulled scared the sugar into submission.

So i think this is a winner overall. i bet it would help a lot with recipes with lower DP and lower eff. since i dont burn off the enzymes from the first tube. PLUS the bigger the grain bill the longer it generally takes to get to mash out temp and then cool it back down.

winning!

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

I would likely knock out at as close to 68 as i can get and then let it naturally warm to 73-74? looking for those banana esters.

That's more a function of fermenter geometry and pressure. (wider is better than taller, open is better than closed) But if you can't change that, temp is your next best bet.

 

[Bigbre04]

That's more a function of fermenter geometry and pressure. (wider is better than taller, open is better than closed) But if you can't change that, temp is your next best bet.

my fermenters are not too bad for being cheap chinese crap. The welds are very good(one of the owners is a sanitary welder in town and went over them top to bottom). they are 3.5bbl tanks but i can jam 4bbls in them as long as i use the second blowoff(not the spray ball). they hold pressure well. They are standard CCVs(unitanks).

open fermentation isnt really a thing down in the swamp that is Savannah.

@Donoroto built a water calc with the numbers you gave and it looks like i need to throw 30g of gypsum and thats it. I assume that i should be shooting for the standard 5.1-5.2ph on the mash. Brewing this tomorrow. already milled in.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1643579

I added the victory. its set to 83% eff but i may end up a little higher so i am expecting to need to back water it down a bit.