Weird figures with the new efficiency calculation method

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by royger, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. royger

    royger New Member

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    Hello,

    I wanted to give a try to the new efficiency calculation method, but I've found something that I consider quite weird. I have the same exact recipe, and switching to "Batch size kettle" and setting it to 25L gives me a different OG than using "Batch size fermentor" and post boil size to 25L. The following two snapshots are taken without changing anything else apart from the "Batch size":

    Captura de Pantalla 2019-09-05 a les 17.28.58.png
    Captura de Pantalla 2019-09-05 a les 17.29.18.png

    I would expect both to give the same OG, as the post boil size is the same for both modes, and hence the difference when using 'Fermentor' is that some worth is left in the kettle together with the trub, but that doesn't change the OG at all.
     
  2. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    You're right. The OG is what it is, regardless of how much you leave in the fermenter. The only difference would be in your BH efficiency.
     
  3. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing QA Software Tester
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    #3 Pricelessbrewing, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    The difference is due to the change of efficiency type.

    Brewhouse with a target of fermenter means 70% of the total potential is making it into the fermenter, ie 23 L.

    In the top image, target is kettle and efficiency is changed to ending kettle (also known as mash efficiency), ie 70% of the total grain potential is making it into a volume of 25L. This should be equivalent to a brewhouse efficiency of (25/23)*70= 79.5%.

    I believe it's working as intended, and the math is correct. It's just not clear that when one variable is changed, other variables are also effected. A simple change, if that workflow is to remain might be to add a small animation around the two affected variables when target drop-down is changed, namely efficiency type and batch size (kettle vs fermenter).
     
  4. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    We've reverted this change, so that we will go back to brewhouse efficiency, as this as caused great confusion among our members.

    Most of our members are used to having brewhouse efficiency as their 'efficiency' in the recipe builder, and so while the math and calculations were correct at the ending kettle volume, since the ending kettle volume didn't match the batch size due to trub losses, wort left in tubing, cloudy wort discarded, etc, this created the issue with lower OG predictions.
     
  5. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  6. royger

    royger New Member

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    Oh, I guess I've never really understood that the efficiency changes depending on the batch target method, sorry for the noise.

    I will stick with Ending kettle efficiency then, since I'm not sure I would know how to use Brew House, ie: I would then have to take into account trub loses &c when setting the efficiency of each recipe. With Ending kettle efficiency should be the same for each recipe (since it's just sugar extraction efficiency), no matter how much trub you leave behind.
     
  7. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    My recipe editor is still showing up with the pre/post volume editor.
    Screenshot 2019-09-09 at 5.27.01 PM.png Am I missing something to get back to the way it was?
     
  8. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    When you start a new recipe, the amounts are just pulled from your settings;
    upload_2019-9-9_18-48-49.png
     
  9. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm just doing it wrong or missing something, but you're editor is reverted back to the way it was. Mine is still showing Pre/Post boil volumes.
     
  10. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    When you switch to fermenter as efficiency target, it shows the new format. They just dumped some of the faulty functions. It's still not quite clear exactly what's going on because there's not a consistent interaction between the volumes, efficiency and OG outcomes.
     
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  11. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I'm mostly just curious because in the tutorial video just posted, fermenter is set as target and well...
    Mine doesn't look the same. I was under the impression we were going back to the way things were?
     
  12. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    That's what I thought, too but it's not totally the way it was before the changes.
     
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  13. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Maybe it's a recipe that was one of the ones that this happened to during the release? If it is, you can change it to the actual pre/post boil amounts and the batch size, and it should fix it right.
     
  14. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    Mine shows as I posted above even when starting a new recipe
     
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  15. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    You have fermenter set as default efficiency target in your general profile settings.
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Ditto here.
     
  17. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    As do I. Why is another efficiency of interest? Only if I'm taking wort out for other reasons.
     
  18. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the tutorial video posted yesterday, fermenter is set as target also and does not show up pre/post. If the software was reverted back as stated it wouldn't show like this.
     
  19. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    With Fermenter as target in profile:

    upload_2019-9-10_18-47-26.png

    Changed to Kettle as target in profile settings (general) and opened up new recipe:

    upload_2019-9-10_18-49-13.png
     
  20. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'm not sure if the above post is directed at me or ? I do know if I change my target to kettle it changes. But, I've always set target to fermenter. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs, but that's what I've always had target set to and that's what I'd like to continue to use. I thought we did a roll back. IMO the roll back hasn't happened properly.
    Here's a snapshot of the tutorial video posted yesterday showing target set to fermenter and displaying how I would expect it to. If this isn't an accurate representation of the software and the settings as they are displaying in the tutorial, then something should change. Talk about confusing to a new comer...



    Screenshot 2019-09-10 at 6.13.05 PM.png
     

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