STUMPED! soupy beer...

Cool, sounds like a try!
Just have to figure out how to beef-up my 2000W pot....
 
sbaclimber said:
Cool, sounds like a try!
Just have to figure out how to beef-up my 2000W pot....
Click to expand...
Can you get Reflectix over there? Essentially mylar reflective bubble wrap - use it to insulate the pot. That may improve your boil - wrap the pot with it, 2-4 layers, and it should improve your boil. I was using it on my small (5-gallon) pot on my 1100 watt spare burner, getting full boils for three gallon batches. One thing: Don't use it with propane - it burns!
 
Nosybear said:
Can you get Reflectix over there?
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I have some other brewers with it, so it must be possible to get. Worst case scenario for me would be ordering some locally and stuffing it in my suitcase to bring back here next time I am stateside (like I did last summer with Camden tablets, which are not available here...). :D
I do have another idea though...
Seeing as my pot (30L, built-in electrical element 2000W) boils really vigorously when only 1/2-2/3 full, I am thinking I am only missing the extra power for the last 10L or so. What if I were to stick a couple silicon heating pads low on the outside if the pot? Well insulated from the outside of course.
e.g. 2x http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/d...-SILIKON_HEIZFOLIE_230V_500W_100X25_de_en.pdf
I know, being on the sides instead of on the bottom isn't great for efficiency, but the extra 1000W should be worth something!?
 
It's additional heat but as you mention, it likely wouldn't be especially effective. In fact, the insulation would probably give you more benefit than the heating. Here's an idea: Boil concentrated, adjust your gravity and hops to boil 2/3rds of a normal batch and add water. About the only problem I could see with that idea is that it would come out a bit darker than a "full" boil and I'd avoid really long boils because of the increased Maillard reactions.
 
It's only been 4 months but this almost feels like necro-posting...
I have an update!
I have been splitting my boil (2x 15L) the last few brews, with no significant change in cloudyness of the finished beer. It is somewhat better, but not even close to what i was hoping to achieve. The boil is definitely more vigorous and I am getting better hop utilization (taste-wise at least), so that is at least positive...
...BUT! Last brew I finally decided to bite the bullet and eliminate the last possible cause....late hop additions. I have been chucking ~200g of hops (~25L of wort) in at the end of the boil (~5 min) and my sneaking suspicion had become, that through some sort of reaction (chemistry not being my strong suite) that has been breaking up the proteins and putting them back in suspension.
So, last brew, I still did a split boil, but only one early bittering addition per boil and no late additions, only dry hop! First thing I noticed was my filter plugged while draining the boil because of all the protein chunks (I don't yet have the ability to whirpool) and now, after a week in bottle, the bottles are starting to clear. :)
Is it somehow a known fact that late addition hops cause serious hazing, and I just missed it!?
 
I think NEIPAs rely on late addition hazing. I know by late hopping you're adding phenols and chill haze is a protein-phenol complex. Want clear beer? Fine it with gelatin. You'll be pulling some of the phenols out of the beer - maybe even the flavor ones - but you'll get a clear beer.
 
Nosybear said:
Want clear beer? Fine it with gelatin.
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The good news is, at least for me, that I don't really care too much about how clear my beer is. As long as I know what is causing the haze, I can at least decide how I brew for the result I want from a particular brew...
 
sbaclimber said:
Is it somehow a known fact that late addition hops cause serious hazing
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Nearly every beer I've ever brewed had late hop additions, including dry hopping. All drop clear eventually. Heavy dry-hopping as in NEIPAs can definitely leave beers hazy, but normal levels of late-hopping shouldn't be the cause of it.
 
I rely on heavy late addition/whirlpool for hoppy beers and I have notice little difference between those beers and a American lager with no late additions and only a small amount of hops at 60 minutes. Some hop haze is normal on hoppier beers and should be expected regardless of when they are added to the wort/beer. I clear with gelatin, like Nosey suggested, but I see no stripping of bitterness or flavor.

Gelatin targets proteins and pulls tannins if they are bound to the proteins. You can get you beers polished (with a small amount of hop haze) with PVPP, which targets tannins, or polyphenols. Even with PVPP, the affect on bitterness is minimal, despite claims by mostly homebrewers that it strips the beer, that's hogwash. That being said, I almost never use PVPP on hoppy beers because the beers are clear enough with just a treatment of gelatin.
 
I wrote an article for another forum a long time ago on how to get clear beer (I don't use gelatin or after boil finings). It's older, but not outdated: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/clear-wort-clear-beer.html Some of those tips might help you.

I make a ton of IPAs, and utilize whirlpool hops, and never have an issue with wort or beer clarity, so it's not the late hopping.
 
Hey Yooper, nice article! Kinda brings me back to one other thing I really need to improve, or rather, need to implement...a good cold break. I have a good hot break (see comment about filter plugging up with protein "gunk"), but little to no cold break, because I have no immersion cooler. :-(
 
sbaclimber said:
Hey Yooper, nice article! Kinda brings me back to one other thing I really need to improve, or rather, need to implement...a good cold break. I have a good hot break (see comment about filter plugging up with protein "gunk"), but little to no cold break, because I have no immersion cooler. :-(
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A good cold break can really help with clarity in the finished beer, so if you could somehow chill the wort and use whirlfloc in the kettle along with it, you'd probably find a much clearer beer with no additional effort.
 
This maybe is a noob question, but when does the cold break "start"? Is there a possibility that whirlpooling somehow "interrupts" that process? I don't do whirlpooling myself (yet, haven't really figured how I would do it o_O) but as I understand it you let it chill a bit, let it sit 10-20 minutes at something like 80C while doing the whirlpool, then continue to chill? Or am I misunderstaning things?
Anyway, I suppose there isn't a problem or people wouldn't do it....
 
okoncentrerad said:
This maybe is a noob question, but when does the cold break "start"? Is there a possibility that whirlpooling somehow "interrupts" that process? I don't do whirlpooling myself (yet, haven't really figured how I would do it o_O) but as I understand it you let it chill a bit, let it sit 10-20 minutes at something like 80C while doing the whirlpool, then continue to chill? Or am I misunderstaning things?
Anyway, I suppose there isn't a problem or people wouldn't do it....
Click to expand...

Cold break shows up when the wort is chilled to below about 80 degrees. I know there is a more precise temperature, but what it is I have no idea. I have a CFC, and the last pass is the one that goes to the fermenter and the one that gets the wort to below 72 degrees, and the cold break all ends up in my fermenter as a result. I don't see it before that pass, when the wort is closer to 100 degrees F.
 
Heavy hopping will add haze, which sticks around, especially when you are not finning, which I don't...

I get it as wel, for all beers I use somewhere between 200 and 300 gr hops ( 7.1 oz - 10.7 oz ) in late additions and a lower temperature whirlpool.

But you say " soupy "... that's not hazy.

This is how it looks and this was pretty hazy: https://imgur.com/a/2pB5m3j
2pB5m3j
 
thehaze said:
But you say " soupy "... that's not hazy.
This is how it looks and this was pretty hazy: https://imgur.com/a/2pB5m3j
2pB5m3j
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That is what mine looks like now I've been getting a more rigorous boil, beforehand it was worse, hense "soupy". It was still just haze, but really really thick.
 
That sounds like you not getting full conversion in your mash. Outside of the mash it’s usually not correctable, unless you add a little amylase enzyme to the fermenter, then the enzyme will continue to convert starches in the fermenter, leaving a rather thin beer. A starch iodine test might be needed during the mash to check for conversion.
 
HighVoltageMan! said:
That sounds like you not getting full conversion in your mash. Outside of the mash it’s usually not correctable, unless you add a little amylase enzyme to the fermenter, then the enzyme will continue to convert starches in the fermenter, leaving a rather thin beer. A starch iodine test might be needed during the mash to check for conversion.
Click to expand...
A starch test is done on every one of the beers I brew. If I get a little shadow from the eye dropper on the white plate with wort on it, it mashes longer.
 
Little update...fwiw, the brew with no late hop additions (only dry-hop) is definitely clearing up better than those with the late hop addtitions.
Here are two pics of the same exact brew, the only difference being late additions vs dry-hop. (not ideal lighting, but the second definitely clearer and lighter!)
The fist pic is of the late addition beer, 2+ months in the bottle. The second pic is of the dry-hop version, < 3 weeks in the bottle. It isn't clear yet, but getting there fast by just sitting in the bottle, as it should be. ;-)
GPA69.jpg
GPA70.jpg
 
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