SMaSH Dry Hop - what to do?

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by Tal Orbach, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    Hi.
    I'm currently making two batches of Pilsener Malt SMaSH - one with Hallertau and one with EKG. Each batch is about 4L (1G).
    As per the advice of the dude at the local brew shop, each batch got 10gr of the hops as FWH, and 20gr more as dry hop.

    I thought the dry hopping should happen like 5 days before bottling, so I haven't done it yet - I brewed about 10 days ago, and I am fermenting at 16-17C with Nottingham yeast.

    Today I asked him how long before bottling I should add the hops, and he answered "two weeks". Now he's not responding, and I'm kinda buggin' out. Should I add them now and wait a couple more weeks? Won't that mean the beer stays there for too long with the dead yeast? Should I transfer to another fermenter for secondary fermentation and then add the hops? Maybe add them now, but not for two weeks*? AHHHHH!!!!!

    Also - I'm planning to try to harvest the yeast. That means I have to use a bag for the dry hoping, right? Do I also have to use the yeast again only for making the same beer, or can I make another SMaSH with them, using different hops?

    Tal

    *I should mention, that the whole point of this brew is to get a good understanding of these two hops, and what they bring to the table. So it's important that they will be rather present in the final product, which maybe means that a short dry hop would be counterproductive.
     
  2. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    first is this an ale or a lager and so your asking 2 question basically when to add hops and how to save the yeast? if its an ale and your wanting to save the yeast you need to dry hop in a bag and do it now, without a bag add the clear beer to a secondary and dry hop then saving the yeast from the first carboy, and if its an ale the yeast are probably done anyway
     
  3. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    It's an ale, but relatively clean (fermented in relatively low temp, with relatively clean yeast).
    So you're saying there's no way that yeast from this batch can be recovered? Why?
    And if I do add the yeast now - can I let it sit for another couple of weeks, without the dead yeast ruining the beer?
     
  4. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I would not dry hop for 2 weeks and yes you can save the yeast both ways but your going to have a grassy taste if you dry hop more than a week
     
  5. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    So you're saying I should add the hops now, in a bag, for one week (or less), after which I can bottle the beer and reuse my yeast?
     
  6. BoomerBrian

    BoomerBrian Active Member

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    If you dry hopped without a bag and want to harvest yeast you can wash the yeast before using. Just google yeast washing if interested.

    I generally use a canister to dry hop so more of the hops are exposed to the beer. You don't want to dry hop with a tight bag.
     
  7. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    #7 Tal Orbach, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
    OK, first thing first: should I put the hops now or do I have to transfer to a secondary? and how long should I leave the hops in there? (considering the fact that it's been fermenting for more than a week and a half already).
     
  8. BoomerBrian

    BoomerBrian Active Member

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    Either way dry hop now. If you have a bag just toss them in the primary. If you don't have a bag your options are transfer to secondary or wash yeast.

    I usually dry hop 3-4 days.
     
  9. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    If your primary is a glass carboy you may never get the damned bag out, just FYI.
     
  10. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    Yeah... I thought about that. One of the fermenters is a class carboy (sort of). I think I'll go bagless, and will see about washing the yeast later on.
     
  11. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    I learned that one the hard way, you could just say screw it with this batch and do the next one with a starter and harvest some from the starter. That's what I do and it's way easier than washing yeast.
     
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  12. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Here's my 2 cents ( I always have a pocket full of change for these conversations. :D )...
    Neither of those hops is great for dry-hopping but they will add notes to the aroma and flavor that will help you really experience the whole package that each brings to a brew. I think if you get at least 3 days at fermentation temperature or maybe longer at cold-crashing temps you should do some good. If you overdo the timing with either, you definitely could get a grassiness that will detract from the overall quality of the brew.
    Though secondary fermentation isn't strictly necessary, you can solve all your problems if you have enough secondary fermenter space. Rack the beers onto their perspective dry-hop loads in clean fermenters - the action of transfering and agitation will drive off any potential extra oxygen that could cause trouble. Once you rack, you have clear, clean yeast cakes to save for other brews. After your beers sit on the dry hops for a few days or as long as a week, it should be ready for crashing and clearing. Around 14 days is a reasonable time from brew day to crashing with Nottingham.
     
  13. Hogarthe

    Hogarthe Well-Known Member

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    With a 1 gallon batch I wouldn't worry too much about dead yeast. There's not going to be much weight pushing down on them and they haven't done a huge amount of work so they won't be too stressed. I'd rack to secondary and add hops there and save your yeast.
     
  14. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I already added the hops in the primary. No bag.
    I think I'll leave them in for five days, then bottle. Does that sound like an appropriate plan?
     
  15. Hogarthe

    Hogarthe Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a good plan.
     
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  16. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    And is it a good idea to try to harvest the yeast? Or will the hops from the dry hopping hurt them?
    Will I be able use them to make other Pilsner SMaSHs (with other hops)? Or other grain SMaSHs (with the same hops that I used here)?
     
  17. vthokiedsp

    vthokiedsp Member

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    sure, you can recover the yeast after dry hopping loose. you'll either need to wash the yeast a couple of times to separate the yeast from the trub and hop particles OR collect "as is" and just pour off the trub/hop particles right before using the collected yeast.

    when you collect the yeast in a container and put it in a fridge, everything will settle into layers so it'll be pretty clear which layers are junk and which are your yeast. pour off the junk layer and then dump the rest into your next batch of wort. this is what i do. it's much easier and works well. i've had no issues with healthy yeast volumes, off flavors (e.g. grass), or carry over flavors from the previous beer. i even used a recovered stout yeast for a blonde and it was amazing. there is some debate over the grassyness of old hops.
     
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  18. Tal Orbach

    Tal Orbach Member

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    So the only thing I can't do, then, is the "poor wort directly on the yeast cake" thing, right? (because they will have too much spent hops in them)
     
  19. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    You could, but it may have an undesirable outcome.
     
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  20. vthokiedsp

    vthokiedsp Member

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    possibly. like i said, i have done it a few times before and haven't had any ill effects from the remaining hops. when you rack the beer out of your primary, the cake at the bottom is pretty sturdy/compact. i've put distilled water on the top of the cake (with some of the leftover beer), and have swirled to loosen up the top layer and poured out the junk, leaving most of the cake layer behind.

    choose an approach that will be easiest for you to execute and go with it. if it ends up with undesirable results, change your approach next time.
     
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