Small split batch T-58 / S-33

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by AsharaDayne, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. AsharaDayne

    AsharaDayne Active Member

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    Hi there,

    Having recently obtained 2 anglo-saxon style one-gallon glass carboys, I want to make a split batch using to Fermentis yeasts: T-58 and S-33, see what each of them can do.

    What I want from this: showcase the yeasts, yet keep a decent hop presence - I suppose a belgian IPA could be a descriptor.
    Though tending to aim for higher ABVs, in this case I'll limit myself to about 6% max. I don't want to mix and match hops, one or two kinds will do.

    The batch size would of course be 2 gals, about 8L. For fermentables, I imagine about a kg DME and half a kg of white cane sugar (2.2 and 1.1 lb) should do the trick.

    My question is regarding hops.
    I had a good result pairing T-58 with Magnum for bittering and Glacier for aroma, so I can go there again.
    On the other hand, I have some others lying around: Perle 8%, Hallertau Blanc 9%, Pilgrim 9.5%.
    Can the Enlightened Brewers think of any recommendations among these hops?
     
  2. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    I'd go with just enough magnum to get decent IBUs, and call it a day.

    If you're trying to really look at the yeast, I'd think anything more than that would get in the way and muddle it a bit.
     
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  3. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

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    if you just wanted to use it up I would lean towards perl for bittering if you dont have magnum handy, I like magnum better just because its cheaper to use, you don't hardly need any in most beers
     
  4. AsharaDayne

    AsharaDayne Active Member

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    I do have magnum. I just, well I suppose I'm concerned using only Magnum would be a bit one-sided. Would you say just Magnum makes for a decent beer?
     
  5. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    What he said. ;)
    If you're really interested in seeing what flavors the yeast will add, you're better off keeping the hop flavor to a minimum. Straight up 60 minute addition of a small amount of Magnum will stay out of the way and allow you to taste the malt and yeast. Otherwise, use Hallertau and avoid too much late addition. I'd avoid Perle just because it's supposed to have some distinctive flavors, but if you stick with just bittering addition, it would be fine.

    I've used both those yeasts and they're both great. You'll get a lot more flavor out of the T-58, but the S-33 will lend some fruity aroma and flavor with maybe slightly spicy hints. Both will go like hell if the temp is up and will behave better (and avoid stalling) in the low-mid 60's as long as the temp is pretty steady. A little wheat can give both yeasts more character, too.

    Give yourself more malt than sugar in the fermentables and if possible, steep some grain - Carapils and C-20 and maybe a little Vienna or Munich. Save the sugar for "yeast-feeding" addition in the primary. Both yeasts will want to stop a little early and can benefit from a little boost. For better attenuation and crisper body, add 2-4 ounces of white or brown sugar (might as well use candi sugar if you can get it) or honey just after the krausen falls.
     
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  6. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    In a "normal" beer, I'd tend to agree with you about not being one-sided, but in my test batches I kind of want it to be boring to some degree. or at least, cut out the background noise.

    fwiw, the test beers i've made where it's strictly the big 4 ingredients (malt, hops, yeast, and water) have all come out as good experiments and learning lessons, and the beer was drinkable and pretty good to boot
     
  7. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I wouldn't only use magnum, its just for bittering, no flavor
     
  8. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I used some in a late addition for something - an Octoberfest lager, I think - and it added a really interesting layer of flavor. There's a unique, subtle fruitiness and big "nobel" hoppiness.
    Aroma...nada, but flavor, yes.
    I want to experiment with a Munich/Magnum SMASH and see what happens. ;)
     
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  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    That would be very interesting indeed there JA going by General brewing terms Magnum for bitterness ect ect it would be interesting to know if there is anything more than just clean bitterness from this hop.
     
  10. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    All hops have flavor. Some are just more pronounced and the oils are extracted easier, etc. Magnum is a typical nobel hop - all are known to have mild flavors and aromas. Magnum is one of the few, if not the only, of the nobel hops that's really pretty high alpha. As such, it can be used in small quantities at 60 minutes and is valued for the smooth bittering quality. That doesn't mean it can't be used elsewhere in the boil.
    It may not have the spicy punch of Saaz or the floral quality of Tettnanger or the stronger aroma of Hallertau, but it has it's own thing. Most brewers just don't want to waste an ounce of it late in the boil of one batch when that would bitter 2-3 similar batches at 60. The low-alpha hops are more efficient in the late in the boil where bitter alpha acid content isn't the important quality.
     
  11. AsharaDayne

    AsharaDayne Active Member

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    Thanks everyone for your insights. I'm going with just Magnum, 18g for 50 min, and we'll see what it does
     
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  12. Starter Hops

    Starter Hops Member

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    Go for it.
    My smoked porter was only Magnum- we used handfuls of whole cone and tossed them in indiscriminately for the hour boil, although is was with a light hand. I think some of the hop terpenes I smelled in the young porter faded (inappropriate grassy-harshness) and it mellowed well into the background after about a month bottled.
     
  13. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    IMO, that's way too much for your purposes. You'll have nothing but bitterness - something like 80 IBUs.That's out of the range even for a big IPA. I use about half that for 5-gallon batches.
    If you're serious about assessing the yeasts, Maybe you should consider doing a simple Blonde Ale and then use the1-gallon cake for a starter for your big IPA when you decide which you like better.
    ;)
     
  14. AsharaDayne

    AsharaDayne Active Member

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    But... I like bitter...
    72 IBU according to the calculator. Actually, in my mind 70 IBU is about standard for my brews (such as they are).
    Anyhow, the die is cast. Let's say the taste test is within the normal and expected parameters for my beers ;)
     
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  15. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Just enough neutral bitterness to cut the sweetness of the beer, say 10-15 IBUs for a "normal" 1.05-ish wort. Magnum is great for neutral bitterness!
     
  16. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    The bitter the better, they say. ;)

    Depending on where you put the hops, you'll get a ton of bitter and some hop flavor. That much sugar in the bill will give you a very dry beer without a lot of body. I doubt there'll be much else to the beer. I'm not sure you'll get a really good idea of the subtleties of the yeasts. IMO, your recipe is a better approach for evaluating different hops than yeast.
    To each his own, though and I'm sure you'll get some enjoyable beer out of it. :)

    Report back when you get around to drinking it. I'd like to know how the 2 yeasts stack up side-by-side. I think I might have to try the same thing one of these times. As I mentioned, I like both yeasts and it'd be good to really assess their strengths and weaknesses.
     
  17. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Yea I'm interested in doing some yeast comparisons in some brews I do. For example my latest pils that I fermented with an ale yeast compared to my current pils same grain ill but using lager 34/70 yeast will be interesting to see the differences both yeast provide. I need to get some mini fermentors oh and a bother keg or two:p.
     
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  18. AsharaDayne

    AsharaDayne Active Member

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    Is it a lot of sugar? I don't mind a dry beer and I often have some sugar in the bill (sorry Reinheitsgebot).
    In fact, I rather overshot my OG, with 1.07 instead of less than 1.06. But yes, I'll see how they taste. Be interesting also to see what Magnum does on its own.
     
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  19. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...33 percent is kind of a lot. A lot of cheaper kits call for that much sugar, but recipes for higher quality brew will usually keep the refined sugars nearer to 10 or so. Main problem with that much sugar, especially in conjunction with all-extract, is you can end up with a cider-y quality that may make the beer less enjoyable before it ages somewhat. By then, the yeast and hops will have faded, as well.

    By "overshoot" do you mean that you did a full boil and the boil-off was more than anticipated? That'd be the only way that the result can be different than the calculated OG when using extracts - unless the amounts of extract, sugar and water you used were different than the amounts entered into the recipe calculator. And all you would have to do is add water to get back to the proper amount/OG and it would be as predicted.
     
  20. AsharaDayne

    AsharaDayne Active Member

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    Gosh darn it. I did not know the refined sugar had that much of an impact.


    Got a higher gravity than I was aiming for. Must have thrown in too much DME - bowl too small for the whole amount - split the amount - miscalculated.

    I don't mind a high OG, per se, but from what I've read, the higher the gravity, the longer the brew takes to mature, and I was hoping to complete the test sooner rather than later.
     
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