Schwarzbier recipe

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by jmcnamara, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    Ok, first try at a schwarzbier. I also went a little deeper with the water side of things, using my actual water specs and paying attention to ph and other water stats.

    It all looks good to me on paper, but any thoughts?

    The new water calculator was pretty easy to use too, but I didn't dig too deep into it yet.

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/705328/oh-schizer
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    That's a LOT of carafa! You're going for color, not roastiness, in a Schwarzbier. The only thing else I would say is use a honking big starter, 2.5 to 3 liters if you can swing it.
     
  3. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    Should have added that I plan to cap the mash with the carafe, so it won't be in there for the mashing part.
    Come to think of it, can I account for that with the ph and water chemistry in the recipe builder?
    If I take the carafa out of the fermentables list, the color will be off but the mash ph and such would be more accurate to what I'm actually doing on brew day
     
    Trialben likes this.
  4. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    I'd record the color, then remove the Carafa from the grain bill, work up the mash chemistry, then add the Carafa back for calculation purposes. Could be a feature request, a way to deal with capping grains.
     
    jmcnamara likes this.
  5. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    If you're sticking to style...

    The schwarzbiers I've liked in the past are the ones where you can taste the roast. I've always wondered what's the point of this style and the Black IPA one. Why make a black version if you can't taste the roast? But that's my biases showing.
     
    ChicoBrewer and J A like this.
  6. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    In my mind, there is a little bit of roast to a schwarzbier, but nothing even close to a stout or porter.

    As for the black IPA, when is it no longer a roasty IPA and it becomes a hoppy stout? I love the beers but I think the new style guidelines went a bit far with splitting the IPA style.
    Too hoppy to fit into an existing style? Make it a _______ IPA!
     
    J A likes this.
  7. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Yeah, I'm trying more descriptive names for my beer styles, black hoppy ale, dry hopped sour ale, etc. rather than those historical style labels.

    The beer wankers understand what I'm saying and the others don't care about the style much, just whether they like it.
     
    Craigerrr, J A and jmcnamara like this.
  8. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,476
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    From the Black IPA BJCP guidelines:
    Dark malt flavorsare low to medium-low; restrained chocolate or coffee flavors may be present, but the roasted notes should not be intense, ashy, or burnt, and should not clash with the hops.
    And the Schwarzbier:
    Light to moderate malt flavor, which can have a clean, neutral character to a moderately rich, bread-malty quality. Light to moderate roasted malt flavors can give a bitter-chocolate palate that lasts into the finish, but which are never burnt.

    I think the point is to avoid having much of the dark-burnt quality because it can interfere with or detract from the fundamental characteristics of the style - intense hop flavor in an IPA and smooth, full malt character in a Lager. Those hard-roasted notes may work in stouts and some porters perfectly because it's a main focus of the flavor.
    OTOH, if there's not a little bitterness from the roast and gets all it's color from dark crystal malt, it can just get a cloying, raisin/molasses flavor that doesn't balance as well. To me, when the flavor comes off as complex and balanced, it really works. Like jmcnamara notes, it's hard to know exactly where it starts being a stout. Maybe you think you're drinking a stout, you've lost the identity of the underlying style and gone too far. :)
     
  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    I hear you - I rather like the Carafa flavor to come through as well. The reason for the dark malt historically was water adjustment, compensating for the alkalinity of hard water with the acidity of roasted malt. The best versions I've had have just a touch of roastiness coming through, enough to make sure you aren't drinking a dark pils. But JC is capping so he won't get nearly the bitterness contribution than if he'd mashed it. And I've had his beers, I trust his judgement on this.
     
    J A likes this.
  10. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,476
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
  11. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    J A likes this.
  12. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,476
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Since were on the subject of dark lagers, here's what I have lagering right now:
    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/692072/dark-lager-lite
    I thought about a Schwartz but wanted something more along the lines of the Michelob Dark I used to drink in the 80's, so it's got more dark crystal and less hoppiness. The dark candi-syrup in the recipe was an afterthought because while I was brewing, I ran across a half bag of it that had been sitting around for a while and decided to throw it in at the end of boil. Didn't hurt it a bit and added a little extra darkness and burnt sugar notes that make the dark caramel and (quite low-level) roasty flavors pop nicely.
     
    Ozarks Mountain Brew likes this.
  13. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    one of my favorite commercial beers is in fact Michelob amber bock, it's very good
     
    J A likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white