Ruby Red Cream Ale

[Please Delete!]

Hi All pretty new to brewing
Started ( as i'm sure many have with Mr Beer) and now hooked.
I am currently trying to come up with a more likable version of Bahama Breeze Aruba Red Lager.
Think it needs little more body and more flavor. So my thought is cream ale rather then straight lager.
FYI I am still pretty new so will be sticking with extract for a bit. But kinda doing partial mash (although not fully getting the difference from steeping)

Anyway would like you thoughts/suggestions on my recipe and getting it to where I want. I must say I am not a big fan of IPA's too bitter for my liking want to actually taste something beside bitterness.
On this i am looking for some noticeable sweetness but not sugar level sweetness with maybe a short live bitter finish. And some good head for lager/cream ale. Not overly concerned with style guidelines as My friends and I are not even close to judges

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/785634/ruby-red-cream-ale

also looking for color close to whats on red-x site maybe little lighter

Thank you

 

[Hogarthe]

I think the beer should taste good. Pretty much what you said you were after. Red is a hard color to get right. One beer that is red is the same lovibond color rating as a beer that is brown, so the calculator has a hard time telling you exactly what you'll end up with. The lovibond or ebc color numbers are based on how much light gets through the beer and not on actual color. But I'd brew it and if it's not red enough you can call it a brown ale.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Doesn't look red enough to me nujack I've not brewed a red ale of sorts but I'm sure you need to get deeper in colour than 9 SRM looks orange to me atm. You could try a smidgen of roasted barley in there to give it that red edge or maybe up the red X some more. Good luck

 

[Please Delete!]

Doesn't look red enough to me nujack I've not brewed a red ale obuilderf sorts but I'm sure you need to get deeper in colour than 9 SRM looks orange to me atm. You could try a smidgen of roasted barley in there to give it that red edge or maybe up the red X some more. Good luck

Yeah i know it's probably not red as is, kinda not understanding how to get what i want. Reading bestmaltz site gives impression could get the red just from red -x but not looking that way. was hoping for some experienced guidance.
was thinking darker crystal but does seem to get red looking at the color in the recipe builder more brownish.
How much more red-x would you suggest. ( i'm thinking i can't use the color representation on the site)

 

[GFHomebrew]

60/40 red X to pilsner/ale malt should get you in the ball park. I find a splash of roast barley will increase that red hue for you too.

 

[Please Delete!]

60/40 red X to pilsner/ale malt should get you in the ball park. I find a splash of roast barley will increase that red hue for you too.

Ok i adjusted the recipe, and the color there looks good if I can go by that but the srm level seems kinda high 24.38 just changed the crystal to roasted barley. should i still up the red-x?

 

[Please Delete!]

So up the red-x also, but only slightly changed srm to 24.69 which is why i'm getting confused. I would think the red-x would change it more since it's supposed to be the main source of the color. ( at least thats what i'm getting going by the description on bestmaltz site)

 

[GFHomebrew]

So up the red-x also, but only slightly changed srm to 24.69 which is why i'm getting confused. I would think the red-x would change it more since it's supposed to be the main source of the color. ( at least thats what i'm getting going by the description on bestmaltz site)

No roasted barley is is an intense black roasted barley so plenty colour contribution from this is think you'd only need like 50g if that. But also recommend sticking with what bestmalz have come up with in regards to a red ale they've done the testing not me. Don't wanna be leading you up the garden path.

Im sure some others here have a red ale recipie or two?

 

[J A]

Hi All pretty new to brewing
Started ( as i'm sure many have with Mr Beer) and now hooked.
I am currently trying to come up with a more likable version of Bahama Breeze Aruba Red Lager.
Think it needs little more body and more flavor. So my thought is cream ale rather then straight lager.
FYI I am still pretty new so will be sticking with extract for a bit. But kinda doing partial mash (although not fully getting the difference from steeping)

Anyway would like you thoughts/suggestions on my recipe and getting it to where I want. I must say I am not a big fan of IPA's too bitter for my liking want to actually taste something beside bitterness.
On this i am looking for some noticeable sweetness but not sugar level sweetness with maybe a short live bitter finish. And some good head for lager/cream ale. Not overly concerned with style guidelines as My friends and I are not even close to judges

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/785634/ruby-red-cream-ale

also looking for color close to whats on red-x site maybe little lighter
View attachment 5854
Thank you

A few thoughts...
1. The difference in steeping and partial mash is that with steeping you use malts that don't require enzymatic conversion - malts with cara- or crystal- in their names are mostly what are used. For all-grain (including BIAB), partial mash, mini-mash you use base malts that require resting at a certain temp for a certain time to allow starches to convert to sugar. Your Red-X is a base malt, so it falls in the mini-mash/partial mash category. Your steeping volume, however is less conducive. A typical mash thickness for good conversion would be 1.25 to 1.5 quarts per lb. You have 3.5 quarts per lb. I would suggest that you consider using a thicker mash or exchanging your Red-X for Cara-Red and just continue with your steeping plan. If you do use a base malt, you'll probably get better than your 40% efficiency - probably closer to 70% - and that'll have an impact on your OG.
2. For the style you're describing, Cream Ale may not be the best approach. With the addition of the Rice Solids and using a Cream Ale yeast, you'll end up with less body than you think. Cream Ale is sort of a misnomer and, depending on a lot of variables, will be closer to a Lager than anything else. Same beer with an English yeast or West Coast Ale strain will probably yield something closer to what you're describing. As is, it'll be a nice beer, though and the amount of Crystal malts will give good body.
3. Regarding the hops and IBU's...For the style the low IBU count may be fine, but given that you'll probably end up with a slightly higher gravity beer with plenty of sweetness from the Red-X and the Crystal you might consider going just a little heavier on the hops (later in the boil). A beer like this at 20 IBUs won't seem overly bitter and you'll get more of the citrus flavor that your beer name seems to imply that you're after.
4. Don't brew for color. You start adding ingredients that will impact the flavor in a negative way. Personally, I wouldn't want any hint of burnt roast in a beer that's designed to be light, citrusy, crisp. Extract beers tend to turn out a little darker than predicted. Crystal 40, Cara-Munich 2, Cara-Red are all good malts for getting a deep coppery/reddish color and will add caramel/sweet/light toffee flavors rather than hints of burnt toast. Special Roast or Special B will add color quickly and in smaller quantities than C-60 with hints of dark toffee/raisin that may not interfere too much. Your C-60 won't hurt anything, but it will add a layer of slightly fruitcake-y flavor in that quantity. A tiny percentage of Black malt may be fine but if you want to add dark/burnt roast, use Blackprinz or De-bittered Black or Midnight Wheat to diminish the impact on the flavor.
Good Luck.

 

[Please Delete!]

A few thoughts...
1. The difference in steeping and partial mash is that with steeping you use malts that don't require enzymatic conversion - malts with cara- or crystal- in their names are mostly what are used. For all-grain (including BIAB), partial mash, mini-mash you use base malts that require resting at a certain temp for a certain time to allow starches to convert to sugar. Your Red-X is a base malt, so it falls in the mini-mash/partial mash category. Your steeping volume, however is less conducive. A typical mash thickness for good conversion would be 1.25 to 1.5 quarts per lb. You have 3.5 quarts per lb. I would suggest that you consider using a thicker mash or exchanging your Red-X for Cara-Red and just continue with your steeping plan. If you do use a base malt, you'll probably get better than your 40% efficiency - probably closer to 70% - and that'll have an impact on your OG.
2. For the style you're describing, Cream Ale may not be the best approach. With the addition of the Rice Solids and using a Cream Ale yeast, you'll end up with less body than you think. Cream Ale is sort of a misnomer and, depending on a lot of variables, will be closer to a Lager than anything else. Same beer with an English yeast or West Coast Ale strain will probably yield something closer to what you're describing. As is, it'll be a nice beer, though and the amount of Crystal malts will give good body.
3. Regarding the hops and IBU's...For the style the low IBU count may be fine, but given that you'll probably end up with a slightly higher gravity beer with plenty of sweetness from the Red-X and the Crystal you might consider going just a little heavier on the hops (later in the boil). A beer like this at 20 IBUs won't seem overly bitter and you'll get more of the citrus flavor that your beer name seems to imply that you're after.
4. Don't brew for color. You start adding ingredients that will impact the flavor in a negative way. Personally, I wouldn't want any hint of burnt roast in a beer that's designed to be light, citrusy, crisp. Extract beers tend to turn out a little darker than predicted. Crystal 40, Cara-Munich 2, Cara-Red are all good malts for getting a deep coppery/reddish color and will add caramel/sweet/light toffee flavors rather than hints of burnt toast. Special Roast or Special B will add color quickly and in smaller quantities than C-60 with hints of dark toffee/raisin that may not interfere too much. Your C-60 won't hurt anything, but it will add a layer of slightly fruitcake-y flavor in that quantity. A tiny percentage of Black malt may be fine but if you want to add dark/burnt roast, use Blackprinz or De-bittered Black or Midnight Wheat to diminish the impact on the flavor.
Good Luck.

Thank you, you've given me lots of useful info. I'll have to work on this. I tried to make changes Trailben was suggesting but wasn't saving. (found out i left edit screen open on different pc) Finally got it to save, but will have to a close look at your suggestions. Definitely don't want fruitcake like flavor. I was thinking i would up the IbU's later once i worked out the grains. But I see that any change i make to the grain amount changes that so i'll work that out to. just seemed to go too high initially.

I used 40% on the mash only because by default it put in 35% when i started it as extract, i'm hoping i would do better but this will be my first so ...
So if i understand correctly i should be doing partial mash with something like 1 gallon?

 

[Please Delete!]

No roasted barley is is an intense black roasted barley so plenty colour contribution from this is think you'd only need like 50g if that. But also recommend sticking with what bestmalz have come up with in regards to a red ale they've done the testing not me. Don't wanna be leading you up the garden path.

Im sure some others here have a red ale recipie or two?

I didn't mean to imply you were confusing me, i was just confused by bestmaltz claims vs what i was getting in the recipe builder. Ultimately only way for me to know for sure is to brew it and find out. It'll be beer so I'll drink it not matter the color

 

[J A]

So if i understand correctly i should be doing partial mash with something like 1 gallon?

Multiply your pounds of malt (ideally including a high percentage of base malt) by 1.5 quarts to make it easy. For 3 lbs of malt, you'd use 4.5 quarts of water or a little over a gallon. Don't forget that the malt will need to be rinsed or sparged with more water to help separate the sugars that you've converted. And then you'll leave some of that water volume behind in the wet malt, maybe .25 quarts per lb unless you squeeze your grain bag very dry (definitely acceptable).
Based on your malt bill, mashing your grain in a gallon of water in a bag for 30-45 minutes at proper temp, draining the pot and then adding another gallon of warm water to "dunk sparge" and then squeezing the bag would give you 2 gallons of wort minus a cup or two. You could use more for sparge too, if you wanted. From there you can add your DME, more water, etc, to get what you need.

 

[Please Delete!]

A few thoughts...

Good Luck.

I've Update the recipe , I'm just unsure as to what the red-x is going to give me for color so thinking I won't go by the srm level and will have to brew it to find out. But what do you think about the changes beyond the color.
Want to try my hand at the partial mash Rather then just steeping

 

[Head First]

Have been following this and just wanted to clarify a couple of things for you. Red ales fall in the 10 to 13 srm class.
Also the beer you are designing is a red ale not a creme ale. I think @JA pointed out creme ale is more like a lager. Where red ale is a more malt forward beer. Both are very good beers.

 

[Please Delete!]

Have been following this and just wanted to clarify a couple of things for you. Red ales fall in the 10 to 13 srm class.
Also the beer you are designing is a red ale not a creme ale. I think @JA pointed out creme ale is more like a lager. Where red ale is a more malt forward beer. Both are very good beers.

Yeah i figured by the time I was done with this it wouldn't be a cream ale if for no other reason then the color.
But I am starting it from cream ale since the beer that inspired this is a lager, and I only want to partially increase the body/mouthfeel. Basically trying to fall in between the lager and ale body wise

From JA's advice I am thinking i will remove the rice syrup solids and try the cream ale yeast to see it that will get me where I want on the body, i upped the IBU's per his suggestion too so that should land about where I want it with the cream ale yeast.

As for the color, Again the inspiration for this was a nice red color very appealing and would like to duplicate it but honestly if I can get the beer that's in my head without the color then Pretty sure I'll still be quite Happy.

 

[J A]

I was reminded of this thread just a bit ago at dinner...
I had a"local" IPA from 512 brewing (one of the larger, very widely distributed, used-to-be-independent brands). It has a nice rich color and is in every way a decent beer - clean, hoppy, good malt flavor. But...there's that nagging, lingering flavor of dark roast that just shouldn't be there IMO. To me, it pushes it immediately into a the American Amber style category.
I think you'll have some luck with your Red-X and I bet you'll be satisfied with the results.
BTW, your recipe as it stands is a little light in base malt for the mini-mash, so your efficiency might be lower. If you consider your grain separate from your overall percentages and keep at least 60-70 percent of the grain as base, the efficiency will be closer to regular mash efficiencies. With a higher percentage of "steeping" grain like Crystal and Cara, you'll be converting less and rinsing more pre-converted dextrines. Either way is fine, but you may want to be prepared for the possibility of slightly lower OG.
Recipe looks good, though.