Recomended yeast for my very first Lager.

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy), Jan 29, 2019.

  1. Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy)

    Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy) Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Gonna brew my first lager. It will be a Vienna Lager. Im having second thoughts about using saflager s-23 yeast. What say you? Should i just DWRHAHB and just do it?
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,365
    Likes Received:
    6,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    RDWHAHB. Do it.
     
    Hawkbox likes this.
  3. Hogarthe

    Hogarthe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I've never liked that yeast. But I only used it once and made all kinds of mistakes on that batch. So I think I'm biased against it even though it wasn't the yeasts fault.
    I usually use wlp830 or wyeast 2007 for lagers.
     
    HighVoltageMan! likes this.
  4. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,365
    Likes Received:
    6,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    I'll hold with RDWHAHB. It's all about learning. You could use 34/70 - hard to go wrong with it!
     
    Hawkbox, J A and goschman like this.
  5. Ward Chillington

    Ward Chillington Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    South Central Pennsylvania
    If you go with a liquid yeast, read the "Quick Lager Question" thread.. The friends are big helpers!

    And that was with a Papazian recipe so definitely.... RDWHAHB!
     
  6. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    806
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Big Lake MN
    S23 is not a good lager yeast, period. It’s fruity no matter what temperature you ferment at. 34/70 is better, but the most forgiving yeast is WLP833. If you can do a starter and pitch at 48F you will not be disappointed. Pitch at a 2.0 if you can. Lots of oxygen at pitch. Your lager should be very clean, no pear, white grape or red apple.

    34/70 is a good yeast but it throws off a lemon ester. 833 will typically not produce esters, sulfur or very much diacytel. It’s malty, but allows the hops to come through. I have won many medals with that yeast. If you can’t get it or want to try dry yeast, then use 34/70.

    S23 sucks.
     
  7. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    357
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Sussex, UK
    forgive my ignorance but what does DWRHAHB mean
     
  8. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,365
    Likes Received:
    6,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Rearrangement: Normally we use "RDWHAHB" - Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. That version means (I assume) "Don't worry, relax, have a homebrew."
     
  9. Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy)

    Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy) Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    You are right. With apologies to the great Charlie Papazian i guess ive had too many homebrews ;)
     
    Beer_Pirate likes this.
  10. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    I've used both S-23 and 34/70 both are very adequate for a first lager. I recommend sticking with dry yeast for a first lager. Getting a starter right with liquid lager yeast can be tricky and dry yeast is more predictable in terms of count. Pitch 2 packets for a 5 gallon batch of 1.050 beer and keep it at a steady temp in the low to mid-50 degree range and let it warm to mid 60s after a week or so counting from high krausen. You'll be very satisfied with the outcome.
     
  11. Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy)

    Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy) Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Thanks even though there is no consensus about this yeast im leaning towards your recommendation. Ive done yeast starters before with liquid yeast and have even re used/washed yeast. but frankly my beers with dry yeast are just as good so yeah its one less thing to worry about on a first time lager.
     
  12. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Every yeast leaves a characteristic flavor. None are absolutely "clean". That's why they're "lagered" to let the yeast settle and lingering flavors fade. There may be a hint of fruitiness with either of these yeasts as well as most liquid yeasts, especially until it clears, but the malt will shine through. I find that Repitching slurry very soon after fermentation is done with the first batch gives really good results.
    Pitch big. Rehydrate and give adequate time for the yeast to really foam up then let the yeast cool before pitching. Aerate the wort very well, preferably with pure O2. I prefer to pitch near 60 and let the temp drop to low 50s. Keep the temp rock steady. Be patient because lag time should be about 24 hours. A few points before final gravity, raise to diacetyl rest.
    Eventually, you'll experiment with other yeasts, starters and pitching methods and you'll find one that you like best.
    Good luck! :)
     
  13. LlewellynBrewHaus

    LlewellynBrewHaus Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    central Iowa
    Definitely agree with @Nosybear and @JA . 34/70 is a great lager yeast ; grab 2 sachets follow the directions get great beer ! Just that ez
     
    goschman likes this.
  14. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,365
    Likes Received:
    6,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    No problem, and I'd still go with 34/70. It's the yeast strain from the Weihenstephan brewery in Germany and they have been brewing since around 1050 AD so I guess the yeast knows what it's doing.
     
    goschman likes this.
  15. Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy)

    Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy) Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    fermentis recommends that you DO NOT Aerate this yeast. I typically do and use pure O2. but if they say not to i would tend to take their advise? which goes contrary to most homebrewers????
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,365
    Likes Received:
    6,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Do you mean rehydrate? I've never heard of a yeast that didn't need oxygen.
     
  17. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    806
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Big Lake MN
    Dry yeast is dehydrated is a process that they have enough lipids to replicate 4-5 times. The biggest reason yeast need oxygen is to synthesize lipids for cell wall health, dry yeast are much more able to handle low o2 wort, so yes extra oxygen may not be absolutely needed as with liquid yeast. That being said, extra o2 will still be absorbed by the yeast and used by the yeast in their metabolic processes and won't hurt a thing.
     
  18. Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy)

    Ron Reyes (Papa Piggy) Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    apaarently some/all dry yeasts are made blah blah blah and dont need it. straight from their website.
     
  19. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,365
    Likes Received:
    6,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Okay, I'm not trying to open the rehydration can of worms. Sprinkle your yeast if you will. What I'm trying to decide is whether the OP mixed aeration up with hydration - he said the yeast said not to aerate and that makes no sense at all. I can't find a reference that says not to aerate the yeast, in fact, most say to aerate well. Fermentis' data sheet for s-23: https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/SafLager-S-23.pdf.
    And for reference, I don't care whether you do or don't either way. You're posting in a beginner forum, I assume you're asking for help. I'm trying to provide it. And since I will likely never drink your beer, I don't care about your outcome, either.
     
  20. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Aerating wort is very common no matter what yeast. I don't know what part of their wesite you found that info on but I've never read or heard of anything that indicated the lack of need for oxygen in the wort. Fermentis makes a lot of claims about their process, so who knows. Their pitching rates are relatively high, but yeast is still going to reproduce. It is possible to over oxygenate using pure O2 but that doesn't seem to be the reference.
    As for rehydration, the site gives directions for both methods.
    Whatever you've been doing with dry ale yeast, do it with dry lager yeast...just pitch twice as much and pitch cooler. ;)
     

Share This Page

arrow_white