Recipe for Critique

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by CT, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Planning to rebrew my "Cit Ruby Cit" this Friday.
    This one got excellent reviews from freinds, but I expect that it will be even better this time. I now have a pretty good handle on water chemistry, as well as water calculations. I will be brewing with RO, and add my water agents. I suspect that my mash pH was high last time, and also I struggled a bit getting the mash to the correct temperature.

    Could the experienced brewers please reviw my BIAB recipe, and comment on any possible improvements that could be made?

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/650670/cit-ruby-cit
     
  2. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    so you have brewed this before ? I think it would be very malty and sweet the way you have it now
     
  3. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    You're underpitching using one package of yeast - I'd make a starter after rehydrating the yeast. There's a LOT of caramel malt in this, I don't know if 77 IBUs will offset it to the point where it's not cloying. Do you need that much salts to get your mash pH to behave? That much gypsum and this might take on an alka-selzer flavor. I'd go with less salt and some acid to control pH.
     
  4. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    It was a little malty, don't recall it being sweet though, that was 2 brews ago ..
     
  5. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    #5 Craigerrr, Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
    I am starting with RO, and was playing around with the additions to get close to the target water profile, the resulting estimated pH was 5.42. when I last brewed this recipe I used spring water from the store and added a bit of lactic acid to it, but did not have a pH meter at the time.
    I will try doing a starter on this, but I don't have a stir plate or a flask...
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    You don't need either to do yourself some good: Use something like a half-gallon jug. Mix up your starter, shake to aerate, pitch the yeast. then shake it every time you walk by it. You'll want to use something that prevents spillage when shaking but in between, cover loosely with aluminum foil, crimped around the top of the container, to let gas out. About two days is good. A mason jar, say a half-gallon, will work as well. To mix the starter, add 10 g DME for every 100ml water (a 1 liter starter would be a liter of water and 100 g DME), dissolve the DME and boil it about ten minutes. If you have any yeast nutrient, add per directions prior to boiling the starter. If you're using dry yeast, I'd rehydrate it before pitching.
     
  7. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    #7 Craigerrr, Aug 14, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
    Thanks, appreciate the input.

    I have adjusted the grain bill as follows, will this be less malty, and sweet?
    I added flaked oats as an attempt to make it hazy.

    12lb 2 row 81.4%
    1lb crystal 40 6.8%
    1lb flaked oats 6.8%
    0.75lb Caramunich I 5.1%
     
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  8. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I second the yeast viability/pitch rate if it is a malty beverage your going for if yeast underperform you may have sweet instead of malty. But if this is slightly tweeked in the direction your going for and it was good last batch. Change it only a little so you know if your in the right or wrong direction when tasting.
    Good luck!
     
  9. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I have also played with the salt additions based on previous advice from Nosybear.
    In doing so, and trying to hit the target values, I have actually increased gypsum to 9 grams.
    I started with baking soda 1.5grams Na... check
    then added epsom salts 1.5grams, Magnesium... check
    calcium chloride 4 grams, calcium, sulfates, HCO3 all affected somewhat
    Then I start adding gypsum, a little more, and a little more, up to 9 grams, below is the result
    No acid addition, and the mash report looks spot on at 5.41
    Is this making sense?
    I am working from RO as in my community we have 3 different water sources, I don't know what my chemistry will be from one day to the next.

    05 - target profile - salts - resulting chemistry.JPG
    05 - target profile - salts - resulting chemistry.JPG 06 - mash report.JPG
     
  10. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense, thanks for posting, much appreciated!
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    At this point, don't worry too much about hitting some target values that may or may not be representative of the water the brewer used. Concern yourself with getting the mash pH to 5.4 +/- 0.2. It looks like your water is reasonable as treated and the mash is predicted to come out at 5.41, which should be good. You can lose the baking soda - you really don't need carbonates in the water and it will bring the sodium, which you also don't really need, down. That'll lower the pH a bit but if you don't go below 5.3, don't worry too much about it.
     
  12. White Haus Brews

    White Haus Brews Active Member

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    There's actually some interesting evidence that shows that stir plates do more harm than good and I've since stopped using my stir plate at all, even for bigger beers. This is a good quick read of an alternative method and the linked forum post in the article will really provide a deep dive if you're interested:
    https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks

    Recipe itself looks pretty good. If you're looking for some haze move the hops to high krausen instead of post fermentation and you should be pretty set. Since you tasted last batch you'll have a better idea of the sweet/bitter balance than I. Cheers! :)
     
  13. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    A shaken not stired starter pitched at high Krausen insted of crash and decant. A 4:1 ratio so whats that in our 20lt department im not a maths man. You tried this yourself.
     
  14. White Haus Brews

    White Haus Brews Active Member

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    I did do this for my last 2 brews and it worked great. Here's the steps I've followed:

    1) Make 1lt of starter wort (~100g DME in a little over 1lt water)
    2) Put it in a 4lt bottle/container or larger with a screw top
    3) Pitch your yeast
    4) Cap and shake vigorously for at least 1 min (more foam the better)
    5) Leave it capped 30min
    6) Loosen the cap and let it start fermenting
    7) Pitch entire 1lt starter into your brewed and cooled batch at peak krausen (approx 12-18 hours after starting) ***very important to pitch as close to this point as possible while yeast are at their most active***
     
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  15. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    So if I plan to brew after work Friday evening, should I start the starter early Friday morning, say 6:30, or 7am? I would expect to be ready to pitch around 8 or 8:30pm.
     
  16. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, I deleted the baking soda, estimated mash pH is now 5.31, what are your thoughts on the 9 grams of gypsum now?
     
  17. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    The ratio was the ratio between the starter size and the vessel to hold the starter: If you were doing a 1 liter starter, you'd need a 4 liter container to make it. An interesting read but I saw lots of magical thinking there.... Same time to start the fermentation as a conventional stir plate starter, no information on outcomes.... About the best I can imagine from it is similar outcomes. And I won't be rushing out to try it.
    I'd keep it in. 5.31 is great, you had, if I remember right, about 70 ppm calcium - reducing gypsum would lower that. Your sulfate to chloride ratio was where you wanted it... Go with it.
     
  18. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I've done the conventional stir plate method for my last 200 brews and it worked great. This method looks easier except for the "if you don't pitch as close to this point as possible you're DOOMED" part, less equipment required. About the only difference between this and the old-fashioned shake method is pitching at high krauesen rather than crashing and decanting. I still have other things to correct before this becomes a factor.
     
  19. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all of the input guys, can't wait for brew night now!
     
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  20. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Just start it the night before...the yeast will be quite happy for the first 24 hours and there's more time for reproduction. Don't forget to account for an extra liter of water and the extra DME in your recipe. It'll have a slight effect on your finial gravity.
     

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