Pre Pro Lager

Unless you find a lager strain designed for that high temp, i would stick with mid 50s. You want it to ferm slow. Unlike an ale that will be done in 4 days, it can take 2 weeks for a lager. You don't want the fruity esters that an ale produces.
As for the D-rest, i would do it. Fermentation is done by then, you don't want a nose of sulfur.

As for bottling, i never bottled a lager. No help there, but after 2-3 months, prolly wouldn't hurt to add some fresh yeast for carbonation
 
I pretty much get it. The only things that still bother me seem to be the pitching temperature and the possibility of adding yeast before bottling.
I am in Florida, and I might get a little luckier during the winter, but normally my wort will not chill below 78F with the chiller. My water isn't that cold down here. Looking at some calculators, it would take somewhere in the 4-hour neighborhood to drop the temperature in the fermenter from 78 to 55 if the refrigerator is set to 40. I am bordering on fermentation at that point. With the ales, dropping 10 degrees when set at 67 or 68 doesn't seem to hurt. With lagers, I don't know. I hope I will be o.k. doing this as the yeast does want to be pitched above 68 per the manufacturer.
At bottling, I read about adding something like an S-05 as a slurry. I am assuming that the fermenter would need to be warmed to around 68 the day before. I also hope that a slurry would mix evenly to the bottling bucket the same as the priming sugar, but I don't know. I assume with the lack of fermentables, I would not have bottle bombs. At this point, I am only planning a 4-week cold crash. Over that period of time, would the yeast still be healthy enough to bottle? I don't know what the cutoff time might be.
I might pick some other brains this week. I have plenty of time to research.
I know that I felt much better when I started brewing to have all the steps in my head first so I could relax and not panic on brew day. That is what all the questions are for. Thanks again for the insight and keep it coming.
 
Upon during some more reading, John Palmer states that you can lager/ do the cold storage in the bottle after it is carbonated. That would relieve one major headache for me.
 
Now, if I'm pitching that much yeast, do you think they will be healthy enough after maybe a 4-week crash to bottle carbonate?
I heard something on the podcast about repitching a neutral ale yeast and bottling at normal ale temperatures.
If I can assume the lager yeast will be healthy enough, I assume I would bottle carbonate somewhere in the low 60s for 2 or three weeks?
If you think your yeast has dropped out too much or you want to speed things up a bit, add a little dry yeast at bottling. A quarter pack or so of S04 or US05 will work just fine. You can bottle condition in the upper 60's without any trouble, this will also speed up the carbonation.
 
Upon during some more reading, John Palmer states that you can lager/ do the cold storage in the bottle after it is carbonated. That would relieve one major headache for me.
You can, but you will get more goo in the bottle. Just pour slow
 
Upon during some more reading, John Palmer states that you can lager/ do the cold storage in the bottle after it is carbonated. That would relieve one major headache for me.
When I bottled I fermented cold then bottled it. Let the bottles carb 2 weeks then out in the fridge for lagering
 
When I bottled I fermented cold then bottled it. Let the bottles carb 2 weeks then out in the fridge for lagering
Did you carb them at room temperature, 50s, low 60s, high 60s? And did you use the carb temps for your D rest?
 
I guess I have a fermentation plan then:
Pitch normally but put into a 40-degree refrigerator for a few hours before raising it to 55. Ferment 14 days at 55. Raise to 65 for 3 days.
Bottle. Carbonate at around 65 for 3 weeks. Lager in the 30s for a month, two, or as long as I can stand it.
I do need to go back and look at some 2 row vs. 6 row discussions.
 
I guess I have a fermentation plan then:
Pitch normally but put into a 40-degree refrigerator for a few hours before raising it to 55. Ferment 14 days at 55. Raise to 65 for 3 days.
Bottle. Carbonate at around 65 for 3 weeks. Lager in the 30s for a month, two, or as long as I can stand it.
I do need to go back and look at some 2 row vs. 6 row discussions.
And of course you will have to open a few along the way for....... Quality control. :oops:
 
I guess I have a fermentation plan then:
Pitch normally but put into a 40-degree refrigerator for a few hours before raising it to 55. Ferment 14 days at 55. Raise to 65 for 3 days.
Bottle. Carbonate at around 65 for 3 weeks. Lager in the 30s for a month, two, or as long as I can stand it.
I do need to go back and look at some 2 row vs. 6 row discussions.
14 days should be enough, but ideally you should verify that the gravity has not changed for three days before deciding that fermentation is 'done'.

Best with a refractometer: it will give incorrect readings because of the alcohol, but it needs only a drop of liquid and the relative readings can be counted upon.

Nonetheless, after 2 weeks you can feel good if you just have to guess - it'll be ok.
 
I think I am going to brew this in a couple of weeks. I want to thank everyone for their input. I also had a long discussion with an assistant brewer of one of my favorite watering holes that helped my understanding enormously. They also make some killer beer.
The only thing left that I don't understand is the recipe calculator. I have my recipe built in Brewers Friend AND in BeerSmith. I have my flaked corn as a nonfermentable in BeerSmith and that is the only difference. BeerSmith calculates a much higher FG and a significantly lower ABV.
I am going to try the 6-row against recommendations because it is an experiment. My understanding is that 6-row does not ferment down like a Pilsner or 2-row. Why then is this recipe calculator giving me a 1.008FG?
 
Got-R-done on Saturday. I found a wort/ambient temperature calculator online. I cooled to 78, put the wort in the fermenter, and placed it in a 48-49F refrigerator for 3 hours before pitching. According to the calculator, I should have been pitching around 62. Fermentis suggests pitching "at or above the fermentation temperature". I used 4 packets of dry yeast for 5 gallons. I then turned up the refrigerator to the 54-55 range.
I thought lagers were going to be slow all the way around, but I had airlock and very noticeable visual activity within 24 hours. It is as active this morning as any ale that I have brewed.
They have time lapse videos of ales online, but not lagers. I was trying to compare my activity to others, but no such luck.
 
Got-R-done on Saturday. I found a wort/ambient temperature calculator online. I cooled to 78, put the wort in the fermenter, and placed it in a 48-49F refrigerator for 3 hours before pitching. According to the calculator, I should have been pitching around 62. Fermentis suggests pitching "at or above the fermentation temperature". I used 4 packets of dry yeast for 5 gallons. I then turned up the refrigerator to the 54-55 range.
I thought lagers were going to be slow all the way around, but I had airlock and very noticeable visual activity within 24 hours. It is as active this morning as any ale that I have brewed.
They have time lapse videos of ales online, but not lagers. I was trying to compare my activity to others, but no such luck.
Well, 4 packets of yeast is an overpitch. Not even slightly harmful - indeed beneficial - but that's why it took off. Now comes the waiting. Patience is rewarded.
 
I was told everywhere to pitch healthy or double what I would usually pitch. I normally would pitch 2 in an ale, so I pitched 4. I did some research online last night. Apparently, it is not unheard of for 34/70 at 55 degrees to ferment quickly.
The krausen is starting to fall, and I might actually be ready for my D rest later today or in the morning (at day 4). Right now, I am planning to raise to 64 or 65 for 3 days. After that, 5-degree incremental decreases into the 40s or possibly the 30s if I need to clean it up before kegging and lagering.
 
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I wanted to make sure I thanked Josh again for the education. I will thank a local assistant brewer in person too. I still have a long way to go with this beer to clear it up, but it was damn good and drinkable flat out of the fermenter. I did keg it into the corny this morning. I checked for leaks and did not see any. I assume it will be normal to lose some pressure with the tank off going from the 50s into the 30s. I hope I get the lager part right as this has the potential to be very good. This is also my first attempt at kegging.
 
Yes, cooling and Co2 absorption will lower psi
 
I wanted to make sure I thanked Josh again for the education. I will thank a local assistant brewer in person too. I still have a long way to go with this beer to clear it up, but it was damn good and drinkable flat out of the fermenter. I did keg it into the corny this morning. I checked for leaks and did not see any. I assume it will be normal to lose some pressure with the tank off going from the 50s into the 30s. I hope I get the lager part right as this has the potential to be very good. This is also my first attempt at kegging.
Yes, pressure will be lost. After it's fully chilled, just top it off with maybe 30-40 psi and you can let it roll just like that.
 
I brew mostly lagers and they can be intimidating at first, but after you done a 100 or so, they're a piece of cake. The best advice I can give you is to select a yeast easy to work with.

Fermentis 34/70 lager yeast is about the easiest yeast to use. This yeast can chew through a beer at 48F, you can raise the temperature to the mid 60's and the yeast will preform really well at those temperatures too. It has a dry finish and has a decent malt profile. The down side of this yeast is it doesn't produce malt bombs, so it's not the best for a Helles or a Czech Pils or an Oktoberfest, etc. It's the best yeast for American Lager, as far as I'm concerned, crisp, clean. Delicious. It's pretty good for German Pils too.

Don't be afraid of pitching too much, most home brewers go cheap on the pitch with less than stellar results.

Pitch it on the cold side below the fermentation temp and let it come up, even if you ferment in the 60's. If you pitch warm, the yeast takes off really fast and can produce fruity esters. If you can, ferment in the low to mid 50's. I make an American lager with it at 48F. It's little slow to start and a lot slower to ferment at lower temperatures, but it's cleaner. It can take 2 weeks to get to the final gravity at lower temps, but if you do it in the low 60's, it should be done in a week or so. D-rest is really not necessary unless you ferment at lower temps. Typically I will let the beer set for a full 2 weeks at fermentation temperature for good measure, then I just crash it to 32-33F. No need to drop slowly. You can lager it 2-6 weeks. I start drinking them as soon as the yeast drops. They do get better after about 4-6 weeks at 33F or so.

If you decide to use a liquid yeast, you should aerate the wort at pitch with pure oxygen. Lager yeasts require higher levels of oxygen to promote a healthy fermentation. With a dry yeast, there is no need to aerate unless you build a starter with it or re-pitch from a previous batch of beer. Dry yeast have a boat load of sterol and lipid reserves and the dehydration process keeps those reserves intact, so no need for the yeast to build those up after pitch.

More advice: Skip the 6 row, modern American 2 row Pils malt has about the same characteristics as 6 row. I would recommend Rahr North Star Pils or Rahr Premium Pils or something similar.

If you use a adjunct, Minute Rice is really nice. Just put it in with the mash, no precooking and it doesn't gum up the mash. I have had trouble in the past getting flaked rice from the local home brew store and it was rancid.
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Don't get too hung up on when to lager or how long to ferment. When the beer is done it's done. If you miss the d-rest and the beer gets hits FG before you had a chance to raise the temp, just raise the temp and let it set for 3-4 days.

Good luck!
Thinking about doing one of these in the near future…Anyone have any thoughts or tips on making one? And most importantly was it worth the effort? Distinctly different? 6 row seems to be a mainstay but what yeast and hops have you used, etc…?
 

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