Mash Efficiency

[cowboy7307]

if i look at a recipe and its efficiency says 80%
and i am doing BIAB and i think my efficiency is say 65%
how do i adjust the recipe to suit BIAB

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

Under Profile > Edit > General, set your preferred Method to BIAB.

For each Equipment Profile, you can set the Average Efficiency.

You can also change these in the recipe editor directly, but setting them in those places first will default a new recipe to use your own numbers and method.

65% is a bit low for that method though. Be sure to research the BF article on efficiency calculations, and be sure to meticulously measure all of your volumes and losses for several batches. (do not estimate - measure.) After about 5 or so batches, you should have a good running average for efficiency that will stabilize. Also, be certain you are mashing to complete 100% conversion, not just by time. (use an iodine test if you can) The efficiency article will show why that is important. If you are inconsistent with mashing to full conversion, your efficiency will be all over the map.

 

[Brew Cat]

Yeah
That's a problem with copying recipes
That don't give the efficiency
Put the recipe in the recipe builder and also their efficiency then in the tools section you can see scale by efficiency

 

[RyNo Brew]

That’s a solid way to use the BF Recipe Builder. Once you’ve set your brewing method (BIAB) plus brewhouse efficiency and switched the target mode to Goal: O.G., you can basically “reverse‑engineer” the recipe. Enter each fermentable with its exact weight, and the builder will immediately show how far above or below the target gravity you are. From there it’s just a matter of nudging the grain amounts until the projected O.G. lines up with the goal. It’s a nice, visual way to sanity‑check a recipe and make sure the numbers actually match the intended gravity. This works for hop additions and target IBU.

Cheers!

 

[Minbari]

That’s a solid way to use the BF Recipe Builder. Once you’ve set your brewing method (BIAB) plus brewhouse efficiency and switched the target mode to Goal: O.G., you can basically “reverse‑engineer” the recipe. Enter each fermentable with its exact weight, and the builder will immediately show how far above or below the target gravity you are. From there it’s just a matter of nudging the grain amounts until the projected O.G. lines up with the goal. It’s a nice, visual way to sanity‑check a recipe and make sure the numbers actually match the intended gravity. This works for hop additions and target IBU.

Cheers!

Never had allot of luck doing it that way. Too many variables that cause efficiency to change.

Easiest way i have found:

Mash
Boil
Take SG reading.
Add water to make SG what you wanted
Ferment

Your volume will vary, but the beer comes out right every time

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I'll be honest, I dont take readings anymore or worry about gravity but I was obsessed years ago so go for it, my final word is it usually tasted good and that's all that matters

 

[Mike at Bay]

So today I brewed a pilsner (my first). Been brewing off and on, extract and all grain BIAB for years but had not really been overly concerned about the numbers. HOWEVER, now that I am retired I have been trying to add a bit more science to the brew. So again, today I brewed a pilsner....a relatively small grain bill given that I have been brewing porters, stouts and ales. I decided that today I would introduce the iodine test to my brewing as my efficiency had been in the up 60's low 70's. WELL, I mashed in the bag for 90 mins till the iodine said I was done.......and......way high on my numbers (1.040 vs expected 1.034). Volumes were fine....PH was fine.....but PB gravity was 6 points higher than expected. Using the dilute calculator I added a gal of distilled water (calc called for 1.30 gals but I had a gal on hand). My gravity numbers are now pretty close (not exact) to expected.

My question.....as has been mentioned above.....recipes online have no clue around efficiency (mine or their's). SO, If my efficiency it truly 83% as I achieved today pre boil after a 90 min mash, in the future should I curtail the grain volumes to achieve the style numbers. For example, today I could have probably used less grain/corn and achieved the proper gravities for the style.

I think this plays to the comment about copying recipes versus creating your own from scratch.

Hope all this makes sense.....been a long brew day.

 

[Brew Cat]

Well you could try just mashing for 60 minutes
I never needed to Go longer except maybe a high gravity beer

 

[Mike at Bay]

Well you could try just mashing for 60 minutes
I never needed to Go longer except maybe a high gravity beer

Ok, perhaps I am over thinking (reading too much internet) this. Should I stop the mash when a) 60 mins is up, b) a refractometer show I hit numbers, c) when iodine test show conversion is complete? I am now thinking that the answer is "b" when I hit the numbers.

In theory I could have maybe gone with less grain for the longer time to gain higher efficiency. I feel like I am missing a key somewhere.

 

[Sandy Feet]

So today I brewed a pilsner (my first). Been brewing off and on, extract and all grain BIAB for years but had not really been overly concerned about the numbers. HOWEVER, now that I am retired I have been trying to add a bit more science to the brew. So again, today I brewed a pilsner....a relatively small grain bill given that I have been brewing porters, stouts and ales. I decided that today I would introduce the iodine test to my brewing as my efficiency had been in the up 60's low 70's. WELL, I mashed in the bag for 90 mins till the iodine said I was done.......and......way high on my numbers (1.040 vs expected 1.034). Volumes were fine....PH was fine.....but PB gravity was 6 points higher than expected. Using the dilute calculator I added a gal of distilled water (calc called for 1.30 gals but I had a gal on hand). My gravity numbers are now pretty close (not exact) to expected.

My question.....as has been mentioned above.....recipes online have no clue around efficiency (mine or their's). SO, If my efficiency it truly 83% as I achieved today pre boil after a 90 min mash, in the future should I curtail the grain volumes to achieve the style numbers. For example, today I could have probably used less grain/corn and achieved the proper gravities for the style.

I think this plays to the comment about copying recipes versus creating your own from scratch.

Hope all this makes sense.....been a long brew day.

Mash efficiency will also vary if someone else is crushing the grain. If you plug your numbers in a few times (At least OG/FG) you will start to see a pattern and at least be able to guess in the future. If someone has 80ish and I have 65ish, I just scale the recipe if I want to use it. I usually make my own recipe from researching different examples of the style.

 

[Brew Cat]

Ok, perhaps I am over thinking (reading too much internet) this. Should I stop the mash when a) 60 mins is up, b) a refractometer show I hit numbers, c) when iodine test show conversion is complete? I am now thinking that the answer is "b" when I hit the numbers.

In theory I could have maybe gone with less grain for the longer time to gain higher efficiency. I feel like I am missing a key somewhere.

Well if you prefer mashing 90 and using less grain is fine
Either way you do it the most important thing is to be consistent and as @Sandy Feet says crushing your own grain the same helps
Now with that said most people doing single infusion 60 minute mashing are doing a longer mash than 60 minutes when you consider the mash in time where conversion actually starts until the wort is heated above at least 170
I use the HLT infusion method with hard stops for controlling 60 minutes
If you do full volume it's harder to actually know IMO
but that is not important
Just pick a method

 

[Megary]

I'll just add, from my experience, that with BIAB you will get better efficiency with smaller grain bills. The higher the OG, the lower the water:grist ratio, the worse the efficiency.
You say you are used to making bigger beers (higher OG) and that this one was smaller than normal. So, this beer (probably) had a bigger water to grist ratio, thus better efficiency. Maybe that's not what happened here, but it's definitely worth looking at.

 

[Bigbre04]

So today I brewed a pilsner (my first). Been brewing off and on, extract and all grain BIAB for years but had not really been overly concerned about the numbers. HOWEVER, now that I am retired I have been trying to add a bit more science to the brew. So again, today I brewed a pilsner....a relatively small grain bill given that I have been brewing porters, stouts and ales. I decided that today I would introduce the iodine test to my brewing as my efficiency had been in the up 60's low 70's. WELL, I mashed in the bag for 90 mins till the iodine said I was done.......and......way high on my numbers (1.040 vs expected 1.034). Volumes were fine....PH was fine.....but PB gravity was 6 points higher than expected. Using the dilute calculator I added a gal of distilled water (calc called for 1.30 gals but I had a gal on hand). My gravity numbers are now pretty close (not exact) to expected.

My question.....as has been mentioned above.....recipes online have no clue around efficiency (mine or their's). SO, If my efficiency it truly 83% as I achieved today pre boil after a 90 min mash, in the future should I curtail the grain volumes to achieve the style numbers. For example, today I could have probably used less grain/corn and achieved the proper gravities for the style.

I think this plays to the comment about copying recipes versus creating your own from scratch.

Hope all this makes sense.....been a long brew day.

I never worry about someone else's efficiency. The best way that I have found is to look at the overall grain percentages. I know my general efficiency based on the target abv(higher abv will generally mean lower efficency especially with more specialty or adjuncts). So i will add grain to the recipe based on the percentages that i am looking for in the style.

Once i have my percentages in i will then adjust the overall grain bill down to where i want the ABV to end up. It is also important to take the yeast performance into account so that you can hit your targeted ABV.

doing it like this allows me to easily scale a 5 gal batch to as big as i want it. or vice versa. if i find a style guide that doesnt list %s i actually do the math to convert it to %s and then go from there.

Also 83% is a very good eff for a small system! thats what i was at before i started dabbling in enzymes.

I have never done an Iodine test. I generally mash for 60 mins(recirc). IF i am low or high i can adjust it with sugar or water while it boils. MY equipement profile is not perfect. I know that the preboil that is listed on BF is gonna be wrong, but it gives me a good rough target for my OG. I know that my boil will gain very close to .4P so i need to adjust up or down based on my actual preboil.


It is also very important to remember that when you have to add water to the boil it will reduce your overall IBUs so take that into account and try to adjust before you hit your 15 min mark. I rarely have to add more then 3 gals to my roughly 76gal finished volume so i am not very concerned on the final IBU, but if you had to add a bunch you would need to adjust your hops to match the expected recipe.

 

[Brew Cat]

I'll just add, from my experience, that with BIAB you will get better efficiency with smaller grain bills. The higher the OG, the lower the water:grist ratio, the worse the efficiency.
You say you are used to making bigger beers (higher OG) and that this one was smaller than normal. So, this beer (probably) had a bigger water to grist ratio, thus better efficiency. Maybe that's not what happened here, but it's definitely worth looking at.

I missed that about the bigger beer
Those will benefit from the longer mash for sure
I always mash in at the same ratio and infuse so don't really see a difference from that part

 

[Brew Cat]

I never worry about someone else's efficiency. The best way that I have found is to look at the overall grain percentages. I know my general efficiency based on the target abv(higher abv will generally mean lower efficency especially with more specialty or adjuncts). So i will add grain to the recipe based on the percentages that i am looking for in the style.

Once i have my percentages in i will then adjust the overall grain bill down to where i want the ABV to end up. It is also important to take the yeast performance into account so that you can hit your targeted ABV.

doing it like this allows me to easily scale a 5 gal batch to as big as i want it. or vice versa. if i find a style guide that doesnt list %s i actually do the math to convert it to %s and then go from there.

Also 83% is a very good eff for a small system! thats what i was at before i started dabbling in enzymes.

Well scaling a recipe is one thing but getting equal results with different systems is another I think
You're right that what other people get or do is irrelevant
That's why 10 different home brewers probably do it ten different ways

 

[Bigbre04]

Well scaling a recipe is one thing but getting equal results with different systems is another I think
You're right that what other people get or do is irrelevant
That's why 10 different home brewers probably do it ten different ways

ya i wouldnt actually "scale" someone else's recipe, i would rebuild it manually using my settings. a good example: I did a collaboration years ago with 2 other small breweries. we all sat around a computer and built the recipe. we then took it home and adjusted it to our system. all 3 beers were different, but in the same general concept or flavor profile. It also highlighted the huge difference between temp control that i have and a dude who had very little temp control. We all had the same grain, hops, and fruit, just different systems and equipement.

 

[Bigbre04]

so when i am trying to build say a dunkle or a traditional euro lager or some kind. I will look up a bunch of available recipes online, write them out on a pad in percentages of grain. (I dont care the actual weights since most of them are for 5 gal batches)

I will cross reference between them subbing my grain where needed and use the common trends in grain and percentages to build up my recipe. I will add or adjust a recipe to fit my personal preferences, brewing style, and gear and then send it.

I have found this method to make really good traditional beers assuming that i hit my targets.

Fun fact for me: when you dont have grain you cant brew...my grain pallet was supposed to have been here on Tuesday morning. It still has not left Asheville and is sitting in a truck at the LTLs warehouse there. Next week is gonna be fucking rough. i will likely need to brew 4-5 days in a row and i will still likely run out of beer. plus if it comes tomorrow it will be an absolute shit show getting on and off of the island because of the crowds for the 4th...

 

[Brew Cat]

Pretty much what I do
Go by percentage and work it back to the OG for my method
Probably why a lot of clone recipes are in extract
Working with a known and predictable gravity

 

[Bigbre04]

Pretty much what I do
Go by percentage and work it back to the OG for my method
Probably why a lot of clone recipes are in extract
Working with a known and predictable gravity

extract as in DME/LME?

 

[Mike at Bay]

Thanks everyone. Super helpful. Connecting some of these dots is what I was missing. Leaning too much on other's recipes seems to be much of the issue. I have the beer styles judges book and will look to brew to the style and use the software to get me there. Seems like a 60 min mash should be sufficient most of the time and waiting for the negative iodine test probably threw me off this time.

And yes I added a gallon to 7.3 gallons of wort so I brought my IBU's down a bit.