Hoppy Saison

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by BrewerMichel, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. BrewerMichel

    BrewerMichel New Member

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    Hello,

    this is my fourth brew and I'm aiming at a Hoppy Saison (or Belgian IPA depending on the definition). My first 3 brews were between "meh" and "shit" so I would really like this one to work and I was wondering if I made some basic errors I overlooked.

    Going for a extract brew with steeping grains. The wheat and oats are for foam and retention. Vienna and crystal for colour and mouthfeel and whatnot. 30 min steep (70° C) and 30 min boil. Detailed info here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/929816/hoppy-saison

    Thanks a lot!
     
  2. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Id double or tripple your dry hop to get more aroma and flavour.
    Is that German Perle hops they more for some spice type thing in the beer?
     
  3. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    Same sort of comments as Ben... That dry hop rate isn't that much of a step up from subtle. So depends what you want. And the hop mix is more on the dank/apricot/spicy/earthy side if that's what you're going for (and more dank/apricot than spicy/earthy thanks to the Amarillo).

    You could drop the oats with your currently dry hop rate, but if you do bump it up, then that extra protein will probably come in handy for a more effective dry hop.
     
  4. BrewerMichel

    BrewerMichel New Member

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    #4 BrewerMichel, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
    Thanks for replies,
    Will increase dry hop. But i'm looking for more of a flower/summer/fresh (or citrus) hop aroma. Any suggestions? Something to mix with cascade would be ideal

    Edit: found that cascade + citra or willamette might work good?
     
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  5. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    I like the Cascade/Citrus mix.

    If you want to try a bit of a mini-mash, you could add about 0.5 kg of 2-row malt to your steeping grains and mash at about 65-67 C. This should increase efficiency without changing the overall profile.
     
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  6. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Bubba. If you're thinking of Cascade add some Citra.
     
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  7. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Just thinking about your comment about your first three brews not being very good. Outside of the recipe itself, tell us about your water, if you are using tap water, is it chloronated? If so you need to fix that, easiest fix is a campden tablet.
    Also tell us about fermentation, are you able to control temp? Yeast create heat when active, if the temp gets too high you will get off flavors. My beers went from meh, to YUM after solving these two issues.
     
  8. BrewerMichel

    BrewerMichel New Member

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    Sir, you are right on! Thanks for the reply.

    Last recipe (quadruple) had a medicinal, bandage flavour. After some research I learned it was because of chlorine. Apparently chlorine + phenols from the phenolic yeast creates these medicinal flavours. Really awfull. Also higher fermentation temps (or fermentation stress in general) can lead to increased phenol production. These factors combined and my quad is just a waste. But I think underneath the beer itself is quite decent!

    So for the hoppy saison, I bought demineralised water and supplemented it with gypsum. Also, since it is an extract brew, I get a lot of the needed minerals from the extract itself I read. I bought the campden tablet for future (biab) brews. Also, I'm keeping a better eye on ferm temps. Got it steady on 18°C, which is the lower end of the optimal range of my yeast. Bubbling fast atm :)
     
  9. BrewerMichel

    BrewerMichel New Member

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    Did the mini mash with pilsner, didn't get the best efficiency but it won't hurt for flavour and freshness of the beer I guess? Thanks for the tip!
     
  10. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    The mini-mash will be more efficient than just a steeping. It’s also a good way to expand your brewing options as there are some grains that require mashing. It’s also a good way to learn mashing if you later decide to move to all-grain.
     
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  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Why are you needing a mini-mash for a Pilsner? A Pilsner recipe (continental, not American) consists of pilsner malt, some acidulated for pH control, water, noble hops and yeast. For an extract Pils, all I'd use would be Pilsner DME.
     
  12. BrewerMichel

    BrewerMichel New Member

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    I mean pilsner malt. There is no such thing as general "2 row malt" in my HBS. I hope pilsner malt was a good choise? I added it to my Hoppy Saison steeping grains for the mini mash
     
  13. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    That's reasonable. From the post I thought you were making a Pilsner. Not much of a flavor difference between Pilsner and two-row, likely sold under the name pale malt.
     
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  14. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    Pilsner is the traditional base malt for Saisons, so it's a reasonable choice. Though whether you can tell the difference in a yeast driven beer is another discussion for when you've got a few beers ready.
     
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  15. BrewerMichel

    BrewerMichel New Member

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    Hey Craigerrr,
    I have the same problem with this hoppy saison. I made a topic in the general discussion section. Might you have a look?
    Thanks
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Here's an idea: When you do hoppy and phenolic together, the result can be harsh and medicinal. Could your problem be a simple recipe formulation error?
     
  17. BrewerMichel

    BrewerMichel New Member

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    maybe, but i've tasted some very tasty hoppy saisons and hoppy tripels, both fenolic i think
     
  18. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Best Click and Clack could do without tasting the beer....
     
  19. BrewerMichel

    BrewerMichel New Member

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    After some bottle conditioning it turned out ok! general malt flavour is good, head retention super, colour amazing but hop profile is a clashing a bit with the yeast notes (combined flavour is weird). Needs tuning but very drinkable!
     
  20. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I keep feeling that the dry hopped saisons I like the most are the ones with very little boil additions and medium to large dry hop additions. Though I only do one that way and can't be sure for the commercial ones I've been trying.
     

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