Hoppy Saison

BrewerMichel

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Hello,

this is my fourth brew and I'm aiming at a Hoppy Saison (or Belgian IPA depending on the definition). My first 3 brews were between "meh" and "shit" so I would really like this one to work and I was wondering if I made some basic errors I overlooked.

Going for a extract brew with steeping grains. The wheat and oats are for foam and retention. Vienna and crystal for colour and mouthfeel and whatnot. 30 min steep (70° C) and 30 min boil. Detailed info here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/929816/hoppy-saison

Thanks a lot!
 
Hello,

this is my fourth brew and I'm aiming at a Hoppy Saison (or Belgian IPA depending on the definition). My first 3 brews were between "meh" and "shit" so I would really like this one to work and I was wondering if I made some basic errors I overlooked.

Going for a extract brew with steeping grains. The wheat and oats are for foam and retention. Vienna and crystal for colour and mouthfeel and whatnot. 30 min steep (70° C) and 30 min boil. Detailed info here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/929816/hoppy-saison

Thanks a lot!
Id double or tripple your dry hop to get more aroma and flavour.
Is that German Perle hops they more for some spice type thing in the beer?
 
Same sort of comments as Ben... That dry hop rate isn't that much of a step up from subtle. So depends what you want. And the hop mix is more on the dank/apricot/spicy/earthy side if that's what you're going for (and more dank/apricot than spicy/earthy thanks to the Amarillo).

You could drop the oats with your currently dry hop rate, but if you do bump it up, then that extra protein will probably come in handy for a more effective dry hop.
 
Same sort of comments as Ben... That dry hop rate isn't that much of a step up from subtle. So depends what you want. And the hop mix is more on the dank/apricot/spicy/earthy side if that's what you're going for (and more dank/apricot than spicy/earthy thanks to the Amarillo).

You could drop the oats with your currently dry hop rate, but if you do bump it up, then that extra protein will probably come in handy for a more effective dry hop.

Thanks for replies,
Will increase dry hop. But i'm looking for more of a flower/summer/fresh (or citrus) hop aroma. Any suggestions? Something to mix with cascade would be ideal

Edit: found that cascade + citra or willamette might work good?
 
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Thanks for replies,
Will increase dry hop. But i'm looking for more of a flower/summer/fresh (or citrus) hop aroma. Any suggestions? Something to mix with cascade would be ideal

Edit: found that cascade + citra or willamette might work good?
I like the Cascade/Citrus mix.

If you want to try a bit of a mini-mash, you could add about 0.5 kg of 2-row malt to your steeping grains and mash at about 65-67 C. This should increase efficiency without changing the overall profile.
 
I agree with Bubba. If you're thinking of Cascade add some Citra.
 
Just thinking about your comment about your first three brews not being very good. Outside of the recipe itself, tell us about your water, if you are using tap water, is it chloronated? If so you need to fix that, easiest fix is a campden tablet.
Also tell us about fermentation, are you able to control temp? Yeast create heat when active, if the temp gets too high you will get off flavors. My beers went from meh, to YUM after solving these two issues.
 
Just thinking about your comment about your first three brews not being very good. Outside of the recipe itself, tell us about your water, if you are using tap water, is it chloronated? If so you need to fix that, easiest fix is a campden tablet.
Also tell us about fermentation, are you able to control temp? Yeast create heat when active, if the temp gets too high you will get off flavors. My beers went from meh, to YUM after solving these two issues.
Sir, you are right on! Thanks for the reply.

Last recipe (quadruple) had a medicinal, bandage flavour. After some research I learned it was because of chlorine. Apparently chlorine + phenols from the phenolic yeast creates these medicinal flavours. Really awfull. Also higher fermentation temps (or fermentation stress in general) can lead to increased phenol production. These factors combined and my quad is just a waste. But I think underneath the beer itself is quite decent!

So for the hoppy saison, I bought demineralised water and supplemented it with gypsum. Also, since it is an extract brew, I get a lot of the needed minerals from the extract itself I read. I bought the campden tablet for future (biab) brews. Also, I'm keeping a better eye on ferm temps. Got it steady on 18°C, which is the lower end of the optimal range of my yeast. Bubbling fast atm :)
 
I like the Cascade/Citrus mix.

If you want to try a bit of a mini-mash, you could add about 0.5 kg of 2-row malt to your steeping grains and mash at about 65-67 C. This should increase efficiency without changing the overall profile.
Did the mini mash with pilsner, didn't get the best efficiency but it won't hurt for flavour and freshness of the beer I guess? Thanks for the tip!
 
Did the mini mash with pilsner, didn't get the best efficiency but it won't hurt for flavour and freshness of the beer I guess? Thanks for the tip!
The mini-mash will be more efficient than just a steeping. It’s also a good way to expand your brewing options as there are some grains that require mashing. It’s also a good way to learn mashing if you later decide to move to all-grain.
 
Did the mini mash with pilsner, didn't get the best efficiency but it won't hurt for flavour and freshness of the beer I guess? Thanks for the tip!
Why are you needing a mini-mash for a Pilsner? A Pilsner recipe (continental, not American) consists of pilsner malt, some acidulated for pH control, water, noble hops and yeast. For an extract Pils, all I'd use would be Pilsner DME.
 
Why are you needing a mini-mash for a Pilsner? A Pilsner recipe (continental, not American) consists of pilsner malt, some acidulated for pH control, water, noble hops and yeast. For an extract Pils, all I'd use would be Pilsner DME.
I mean pilsner malt. There is no such thing as general "2 row malt" in my HBS. I hope pilsner malt was a good choise? I added it to my Hoppy Saison steeping grains for the mini mash
 
That's reasonable. From the post I thought you were making a Pilsner. Not much of a flavor difference between Pilsner and two-row, likely sold under the name pale malt.
 
Pilsner is the traditional base malt for Saisons, so it's a reasonable choice. Though whether you can tell the difference in a yeast driven beer is another discussion for when you've got a few beers ready.
 
Just thinking about your comment about your first three brews not being very good. Outside of the recipe itself, tell us about your water, if you are using tap water, is it chloronated? If so you need to fix that, easiest fix is a campden tablet.
Also tell us about fermentation, are you able to control temp? Yeast create heat when active, if the temp gets too high you will get off flavors. My beers went from meh, to YUM after solving these two issues.
Hey Craigerrr,
I have the same problem with this hoppy saison. I made a topic in the general discussion section. Might you have a look?
Thanks
 
Here's an idea: When you do hoppy and phenolic together, the result can be harsh and medicinal. Could your problem be a simple recipe formulation error?
 
Here's an idea: When you do hoppy and phenolic together, the result can be harsh and medicinal. Could your problem be a simple recipe formulation error?
maybe, but i've tasted some very tasty hoppy saisons and hoppy tripels, both fenolic i think
 
Best Click and Clack could do without tasting the beer....
 
After some bottle conditioning it turned out ok! general malt flavour is good, head retention super, colour amazing but hop profile is a clashing a bit with the yeast notes (combined flavour is weird). Needs tuning but very drinkable!
 
After some bottle conditioning it turned out ok! general malt flavour is good, head retention super, colour amazing but hop profile is a clashing a bit with the yeast notes (combined flavour is weird). Needs tuning but very drinkable!
I keep feeling that the dry hopped saisons I like the most are the ones with very little boil additions and medium to large dry hop additions. Though I only do one that way and can't be sure for the commercial ones I've been trying.
 

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