Guinness clone with a twist

[Craigerrr]

Have you checked your hydrometer to see if it measures zero with water?
I would say that as long as gravity is stable for 3 days hat you can go ahead and bottle it.

 

[Craigerrr]

I was wondering about the tar too.
Please post so detail on that.
It doesn't sound like an ingredient that Guinness uses.

 

[JVi]

Have you checked your hydrometer to see if it measures zero with water?
I would say that as long as gravity is stable for 3 days hat you can go ahead and bottle it.

No i have not checked, but now that you mentioned i will do that.
OK i will start checking period from tuesday, little depends numbers though.

 

[JVi]

You do not want to bottle if the gravity is not terminal unless you like bottle bombs.
Not sure about the tar stuff. Chocolate 350 or Roasted Barley should be what you want for the roasty/bitterness.

don´t like bottle bombs at all.

 

[Craigerrr]

I guess your "tar" or "terva" isn't an ingrediant that would have any negative impact on your beer. I would recommend removing variables though, and keeping it simple.

 

[JVi]

I was wondering about the tar too.
Please post so detail on that.
It doesn't sound like an ingredient that Guinness uses.

Yeah Guinness doesn´t have tar in it at all. Tar is my twist, because i like the taste of it.
Tar used in food industry as spice and for flavoring with candy, soda, beer and vodka etc.

Wood tar and water mixed so that is suitable for food industry.

 

[JVi]

I guess your "tar" or "terva" isn't an ingrediant that would have any negative impact on your beer. I would recommend removing variables though, and keeping it simple.
View attachment 33472

It shouldn´t have negative impacts, other than taste if it goes over that fine line.
Not worried about taste as much as high FG, taste is off anyways because of that mishap with hops.
For next batch i will have little baskets for hops.

 

[J A]

Yeah Guinness doesn´t have tar in it at all. Tar is my twist, because i like the taste of it.
Tar used in food industry as spice and for flavoring with candy, soda, beer and vodka etc.

Wood tar and water mixed so that is suitable for food industry.

I had assumed that it would be something like porterine which is syrup cooked until it's very black and intense in flavor. It has been used in some dark American and maybe English beers and, I think as an additive to commercial-scale foods and beverages in small quantities to impart caramel color.
The Food Tar sounds really intriguing.

If you're still having trouble with this beer and you don't like the flavor, maybe it's not worth the trouble to bottle it. You could have had another batch brewed by now and gotten something that tastes right. Dumping a batch is a bold move and a tough decision but sometimes it's for the best.
Good luck!!

 

[JVi]

I had assumed that it would be something like porterine which is syrup cooked until it's very black and intense in flavor. It has been used in some dark American and maybe English beers and, I think as an additive to commercial-scale foods and beverages in small quantities to impart caramel color.
The Food Tar sounds really intriguing.

If you're still having trouble with this beer and you don't like the flavor, maybe it's not worth the trouble to bottle it. You could have had another batch brewed by now and gotten something that tastes right. Dumping a batch is a bold move and a tough decision but sometimes it's for the best.
Good luck!!

Food tar is intriguing and brings very different kind of end result depending how it is used.
I did original test by adding it to commercial made dark stout with 5.5% alcohol with really smoky flavor(almost coal like) about 1st 2ml and 2nd 3ml to 0,33l can of beer. First straight to can and then tar to glass and beer on top of that. Not much difference between with these.

It is not first time that this tar has been tested. https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/885482/tervaolut

I will follow this to the bitter end This way i can see what happens in bottle, how taste changes etc.

 

[Donoroto]

If your fermentation has stopped but is not below 1.020 or so, I suggest warming the fermenter a few degrees C, to the higher range of the yeast you used. This can help the yeast re-start.

The How To Brew bible by John Palmer is how most of us learned, well, how to brew. He has some arguable statements in there, but most of it is great advice.

 

[JVi]

If your fermentation has stopped but is not below 1.020 or so, I suggest warming the fermenter a few degrees C, to the higher range of the yeast you used. This can help the yeast re-start.

The How To Brew bible by John Palmer is how most of us learned, well, how to brew. He has some arguable statements in there, but most of it is great advice.

After next measurements(today or tomorrow) i see what are numbers and if it is over 1.020 i will raise temperature of fermenting area and see what happens.

 

[JVi]

Have you checked your hydrometer to see if it measures zero with water?
I would say that as long as gravity is stable for 3 days hat you can go ahead and bottle it.

No it doesn´t. Water 20.3 C hydrometer shows 1.004

 

[JVi]

Took readings also today, whooping 1.034 so basically 2nd yeast didn´t do anything. With out any good reason for this i am not too confident that next batch will be any different. But hey lets take all positives out of this, when i drink that half fermented well yeasted liquid i don´t need to worry about being constipated anytime soon.

 

[Sandy Feet]

How fermentable is that tar? That and mash temps could be the culprit assuming the yeast was good and you used a good pitch. If there were residual sugars, a second pitch should have helped.
I would try brewing the Stout with normal ingredients and see how that works before trying another experiment. If you can get your hands on a good Guinness liquid strain, even better.

 

[Craigerrr]

No it doesn´t. Water 20.3 C hydrometer shows 1.004

Took readings also today, whooping 1.034 so basically 2nd yeast didn´t do anything. With out any good reason for this i am not too confident that next batch will be any different. But hey lets take all positives out of this, when i drink that half fermented well yeasted liquid i don´t need to worry about being constipated anytime soon.

Your current gravity may actually be 1.030 if you take into account that your hydrometer is measuring .004 high
It has been a week since you first posted, what day did you pitch the first yeast?

 

[Dave Y]

22l of water, all straight to kettle.
Grain bill:
3.2 kg Maris Otter Pale
0.5 kg Roasted Barley
0.4 kg Chocolate malt
0.5 kg Flaked barley


Hops:
25g East Kent Goldings 60min
25g Fuggle 60min
Extras:
100ml food tar 60min

The food tar is a 'variable' that a lot of us have little experience with. Is there anything in the food tar you used that may compromise the yeast? I saw some internet lore indicating it is used in alcohol there, among other things. One thing that comes to mind for me - Molasses. It can be an interesting character to bring to beer, but sulfated molasses can bring off flavors and incomplete fermentation.

Yeast:
1pc Lalbrew Nottigham ALE - expiration date? was it stored properly?

15l to Fermenter(plastic bucket) - cleaned and sanitized?
60min mash at 68 C - you got good SG, so the mash went pretty well.
60min boil
Cooling time was 35min, 20min more than i hoped
20 C pitching temp
Fermenting temp was between 12-20 C
OG 1.064 Tuesday
FG 1.040 Today, no bubbles since saturday

Took readings also today, whooping 1.034 so basically 2nd yeast didn´t do anything. With out any good reason for this i am not too confident that next batch will be any different. But hey lets take all positives out of this, when i drink that half fermented well yeasted liquid i don´t need to worry about being constipated anytime soon.

My thinking is contamination, or something in the beer compromising the yeast.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378874121011193

The question is whether you want to troubleshoot this or produce a good, drinkable beer.

That and mash temps could be the culprit assuming the yeast was good and you used a good pitch. If there were residual sugars, a second pitch should have helped.

The mash temp 68c is ~154.4. Not high for a stout. A 2nd pitch won't help if something is killing the yeast or preventing its reproduction.

I would try brewing the Stout with normal ingredients and see how that works before trying another experiment.

If I were in this position I'd consider redoing the recipe verbatim without the tar. If if works, we have a much greater than zero probability that the tar is hurting the fermentation.

If it does not improve or we get a similar high FG, we have another issue.

 

[J A]

If I were in this position I'd consider redoing the recipe verbatim without the tar. If if works, we have a much greater than zero probability that the tar is hurting the fermentation.

I think it's unlikely that the food tar would inhibit fermentation unless it's got some massive amount of preservatives (it doesn't seem to have any). It just seems more likely that something in the the mash cycle affected conversion and/or temp swings during early fermentation disrupted the yeast reproduction cycle. Once the oxygen is depleted, it's hard to get a second pitch to take off, even with dry yeast.
I've had stouts stall more than any other style, though usually they go below 20, at least.

 

[JVi]

How fermentable is that tar? That and mash temps could be the culprit assuming the yeast was good and you used a good pitch. If there were residual sugars, a second pitch should have helped.
I would try brewing the Stout with normal ingredients and see how that works before trying another experiment. If you can get your hands on a good Guinness liquid strain, even better.

Should be fermentable, it has no preservatives, only water and wood tar.

 

[JVi]

Your current gravity may actually be 1.030 if you take into account that your hydrometer is measuring .004 high
It has been a week since you first posted, what day did you pitch the first yeast?

28/10 yeast pitched. it worked actively 2 days at 17-19 temp, then someone(kids maybe) cut power from my heating element and temp dropped hard. Friday i noticed that, after saturday morning no bubbles.

 

[JVi]

22l of water, all straight to kettle.
Grain bill:
3.2 kg Maris Otter Pale
0.5 kg Roasted Barley
0.4 kg Chocolate malt
0.5 kg Flaked barley


Hops:
25g East Kent Goldings 60min
25g Fuggle 60min
Extras:
100ml food tar 60min

The food tar is a 'variable' that a lot of us have little experience with. Is there anything in the food tar you used that may compromise the yeast? I saw some internet lore indicating it is used in alcohol there, among other things. One thing that comes to mind for me - Molasses. It can be an interesting character to bring to beer, but sulfated molasses can bring off flavors and incomplete fermentation.

Yeast:
1pc Lalbrew Nottigham ALE - expiration date? was it stored properly?

15l to Fermenter(plastic bucket) - cleaned and sanitized?
60min mash at 68 C - you got good SG, so the mash went pretty well.
60min boil
Cooling time was 35min, 20min more than i hoped
20 C pitching temp
Fermenting temp was between 12-20 C
OG 1.064 Tuesday
FG 1.040 Today, no bubbles since saturday



My thinking is contamination, or something in the beer compromising the yeast.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378874121011193

The question is whether you want to troubleshoot this or produce a good, drinkable beer.

The mash temp 68c is ~154.4. Not high for a stout. A 2nd pitch won't help if something is killing the yeast or preventing its reproduction.

If I were in this position I'd consider redoing the recipe verbatim without the tar. If if works, we have a much greater than zero probability that the tar is hurting the fermentation.

If it does not improve or we get a similar high FG, we have another issue.

Yeast expiration day was ok, stored properly, i think/hope so, here it was in freezer but it was few days outside freezer, actually 5 days. I have no idea how fast these vacuum packed dry yeast go bad without freezer(under +4 said pack)

Cleaned and sanitized, Yes and Yes with PBW and STAR SAN, but there is always possibility for something. I hate those plastic buckets. With wine and moonshine mash those are just fine. Stainless Steel one is in my shopping list, just kind of expensive those.