First Lager - using 34 / 70 - any tips

Herm brews said:
Never have I considered brewing any kind of lager until now. In my brewing of ales, my standard practice is always 3 weeks of primary fermentation, and not once have I ever done the process of raising temperature for a Diacetyl rest. As I am learning, this D-rest is a “requirement” for producing a lager. It sounds like fermentation progress must be monitored to know when to raise the temperature, but I don’t use a Tilt or anything like that. This seems like an intrusive practice, at least in respect to my usual leave it alone and be patient philosophy. What say you, Brewers Friends?
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Low krausen for D rest. I pitch very heavy, and that is generally like an ale - day 3 or 4 or so
 
Herm,
I wasn't going to try one until I had a keg. My concern was having sediment in the bottles for that style. If I did the actual lager process before bottling, my concern was the bottles not carbonating, so I assume you get your CO2 levels first and then drop temps like an ale? When I got the Corny Keg and the regulator, that put me over the edge.
With the keg, I transfer after fermentation and let it lager in the keg. At that time, I can try to get CO2 right (still working on that part).
I did a lot of Munich I and Vienna in the last beer and it didn't ferment down as far as I would have liked. I might modify the last few days of my lager schedule. I was going cooler in the lower 50s toward the end to see if it would drop faster, but that did not work as planned. I might let it finish at 55 after the D rest on the next one.
I know you like IPAs. IPLs or hoppy Pilsners have been tasty as hell when the breweries have them.
I was near St Pete earlier this week and several places in the Bay area were doing hoppier Czech Pils with lots of Saaz. They were good!
 
I am strictly a bottler of beer, there are no kegs in my brewhouse, so all carbonation is done as bottle conditioning. Sediment in the bottles is just part of homebrewing for me. Through time, I have learned to watch as I pour to avoid dumping the bottle sediment into my glass. However, some beers, like my recent batches of Summer Saison, the sediment coagulates into a ”cake” at the bottom of the bottle that does not pour out. The stout that is currently ready for drinking pours clear without any bottle sediment.
As for my intention to brew a lager, it will be bottled, and I will just have to see what happens. I am now in the process of crafting a recipe for a Vienna Lager, which I will post up for review when it is ready.
 
I just did my first playing around with Vienna and Munich. Sunfire seems to be able to attenuate well with those. I didn't.
I was 50 pils 30 Munich 20 Vienna on mine. I mashed at 150, and only went 1.060 to 1.020.
I also used Munich I and not the darker version.
The recipes I have seen online for those have been very basic: Almost all Vienna with just a touch of Chocolate to darken it a little bit. You are doing smaller batches, so you can play more than I can.
I hope others will correct me if wrong, but I don't see 1.008 with the darker Munich unless you are getting some super results from the yeast and mash really low.
I am very interested in the results you get from bottling too as I was going to try it and decided to get some more toys.
Learning is fun:)
 
HighVoltageMan! said:
34/70 is a great first lager yeast. It has a number advantages over other yeast, the biggest is that it doesn’t need very much in the way of aeration.

Spunding is great, but it’s not necessary. I spund all my lagers, the pressure depends on temperature. When you bring up the pressure isn’t critical as long as you bring the pressure up the last 15-20% of the fermentation. At 55F I like to get the pressure to 25psi. Above 55F, I would never exceed 30psi. If the beer isn’t completely carbonated during the fermentation, then it can be finished with forced carbonation.

Lagering can last from 2 to 8 weeks. The clarity of the beer indicates if it’s ready, along with the flavor maturation.
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A spunding valve is on my list but fuck the are pricey for commercial toys! I dont know if you gain anything when using nova lager though...
 
This is my standard lager.

I am actually brewing the second batch of a double of this. It is my best seller by far, I have to brew a double of this every month! The only thing is that I use Nova lager(which is awesome).

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1369381

This round, i upped the IBUs and reduced the Dextrin.

This one was based off of a recipe i saw online that i was just really curious about. It is far lighter then the one above. Its good, but really light. Honestly im not sure that i would do it again. Im guessing that this recipe is done for mass production and cost savings as it is so simple. Its not bad, but if i did it again, i would up the IBUS a fair amount.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1416418

This is my Vienna Lager. Its the second generation. Its very very good imo and sold extremely well. I am making another batch of it next week.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1403499
 
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Herm brews said:
Here is my first attempt at a lager recipe, crafted by me based on information I gathered online. The abv is a little high for the style, and the use of Nugget hops for bittering is because I have them on hand. If any of you have constructive feedback, please enlighten me.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1427826/vienna-lager
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I'm sure it will be great as is.

But...because I have a big mouth :rolleyes:...if that were my "Vienna Lager" I would cut the Victory in half, drop the melanoidin altogether and add a wee bit of Carafa or Roasted Barley IF and only IF I needed some color. That might bring the ABV back into "sessionable" strength as well.

Either way, good luck. I'm sure you will own it!
 
Megary said:
I'm sure it will be great as is.

But...because I have a big mouth :rolleyes:...if that were my "Vienna Lager" I would cut the Victory in half, drop the melanoidin altogether and add a wee bit of Carafa or Roasted Barley IF and only IF I needed some color. That might bring the ABV back into "sessionable" strength as well.

Either way, good luck. I'm sure you will own it!
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Thanks for your sage advice.
Here is the reasoning behind my construction. I added the melanoidin because one big tip I read said to use up to 3% if doing a single infusion mash. Another tip from the same source said to avoid the use of any roasted grains, instead using toasted grains to promote the bread flavors desired in the style. That is where the Victory and Munich II come into the mix. One thing I can’t understand, at least if trying to match the style guidelines, is using 100% Vienna malt.
 
Herm brews said:
Thanks for your sage advice.
Here is the reasoning behind my construction. I added the melanoidin because one big tip I read said to use up to 3% if doing a single infusion mash. Another tip from the same source said to avoid the use of any roasted grains, instead using toasted grains to promote the bread flavors desired in the style. That is where the Victory and Munich II come into the mix. One thing I can’t understand, at least if trying to match the style guidelines, is using 100% Vienna malt.
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I add some Brown malt or Special X for a little more complexity. I would probably forego the Melanoidin in favor of just the Munich 2 personally. I also add Oats and Dextrin to EVERYTHING so take my advice with a grain of salt lol. I posted my Vienna up above if you wanna peek at it.
 
Herm brews said:
Thanks for your sage advice.
Here is the reasoning behind my construction. I added the melanoidin because one big tip I read said to use up to 3% if doing a single infusion mash. Another tip from the same source said to avoid the use of any roasted grains, instead using toasted grains to promote the bread flavors desired in the style. That is where the Victory and Munich II come into the mix. One thing I can’t understand, at least if trying to match the style guidelines, is using 100% Vienna malt.
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Not sage advice at all, just my .02.

I can follow the reasoning for the melanoidin. And since I've never brewed the recipe as written, what do I know? I see a Vienna Lager as a malty, yet very crushable/sessionable beer. I worry that 10+% of Victory and 3% of Melanoidin may make it too malty...if that's even a thing.

I would take issue, however, with summarily dismissing roasted malt. I don't feel it would be out of place at all. A touch of roast would be just fine for the style, might add a nice dry finish and maybe a great tint of red that is hard to get otherwise. In moderation, of course. Just a smidge.

And your last comment has me thinking...98% Vienna and 2% Roasted Barley would make a killer beer.

Hmm...
 
Megary said:
Not sage advice at all, just my .02.

I can follow the reasoning for the melanoidin. And since I've never brewed the recipe as written, what do I know? I see a Vienna Lager as a malty, yet very crushable/sessionable beer. I worry that 10+% of Victory and 3% of Melanoidin may make it too malty...if that's even a thing.

I would take issue, however, with summarily dismissing roasted malt. I don't feel it would be out of place at all. A touch of roast would be just fine for the style, might add a nice dry finish and maybe a great tint of red that is hard to get otherwise. In moderation, of course. Just a smidge.

And your last comment has me thinking...98% Vienna and 2% Roasted Barley would make a killer beer.

Hmm...
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i was thinking along the same lines, especially with straight Vienna instead of 2row. That being said, I have never brewed with straight colored malt before. I think it is technically more traditional maybe? I like adding some crystal for extra color and the caramel flavors.
 
You two (@Megary and @Bigbre04) got me thinking now. Another of the tips I read was the addition of some kind of wheat malt to improve body and head retention, though it was said that proper mashing would negate the need for wheat. I considered the addition of something like midnight or chocolate wheat to achieve the stated goal, and to add that touch of color. However, that was contradictory to the advice against roasted malts, so I went the Victory and Munich II. Maybe I will rethink this whole thing.
 
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Won't open Herm.

Good luck.

My 2c be careful going too high ABV you'll need way more yeast to get the job done "if" fermenting cool.
If not ignore my post.

You'll nail it I know .

All I've lernt from brewing the many hap hazard lagers I've done over the years is simple really is best when it comes to a nice refined clean lager .

I'd aim at 3 or 4 Malta at the most to achieve your target...
 
Herm brews said:
As for my intention to brew a lager, it will be bottled, and I will just have to see what happens. I am now in the process of crafting a recipe for a Vienna Lager, which I will post up for review when it is ready.
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I "Lager " my cream ale in bottles for about 2 to 3 weeks at about 40° F after conditioning for carbonation at around 75° F and it drops all proteins so you can read a newspaper through it!
 
Trialben said:
Won't open Herm.

Good luck.

My 2c be careful going too high ABV you'll need way more yeast to get the job done "if" fermenting cool.
If not ignore my post.

You'll nail it I know .

All I've lernt from brewing the many hap hazard lagers I've done over the years is simple really is best when it comes to a nice refined clean lager .

I'd aim at 3 or 4 Malta at the most to achieve your target...
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Glitchy software, which seems to allow then disallow public access. I have repeatedly made both recipes public, double checked and I can always view it. We’re out right now, so I had my wife check on her phone, and not public. So I just made it public, again.
 
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