Fermentation stop to fast (2nd time 2nd bach)

[Mastoras007]

Hello it's me again,
So i started new thread to get some help with fermentation,I made a batch few days ago, i had OG 1065 and after few days drop to 1030 and that's it fermentation end.
my second batch few days later i had OG 1043 and now is 2 days stack to 1025, the recipe target gravity is 1009.
First time i make wrong with water quantity and i had less water about 30% down, second time i make the correct calculation and i ended up with correct amount of water
first time i had wrong mash temperature (i realize it the second time because i replace the thermometer) and i mash it at 70-72
Second time i mash again to 70-72 for the first 10-15 minutes after drop to 65-67 (75min mashing) and mash out again to 75-76 for 10 minutes
so some things gone wrong,
first beer taste ok not something crazy but is drinkable but not so nice,
second batch still fermenting but the taste is also not so good it's very bitter.
Why i have so low fermentation? Because of temperature failures? Low oxygen in the wort? Something other?
Temperature is stable 19-20 Celsius with temperature control system
Thanks in Advance

 

[Minbari]

Mash was way too hot. Most likely starches did not fully convert to sugar.

Leave it be full the full 2 weeks and see if it drops some more

What yeast did you use?

 

[Mastoras007]

Can this effect the taste of the beer?
I'm preparing now for 3rd batch

 

[Sunfire96]

Stuck fermentations can result from a few different things.

The wort isn't fully fermentable. This is affected by mash temperature being too low or too high, or the recipe didn't have enough base grain to provide a fermentable wort.

The yeast health wasn't great. Not enough oxygen in the wort, or the yeast were too old or underpitched. You may also be lacking nutrients needed by the yeast, like calcium, zinc, and DAP. Also fermentation temperature greatly affects yeast's ability to ferment. Too cold and they will go dormant and stop metabolizing.

Overly bitter beer can be the result of the mash pH being too high. Brewers will add food save acid to decrease the pH to the correct zone.

Can you send us a link to the recipe you used for the 2nd batch, and tell us what kind of yeast you used?

 

[Zambi]

How do you mash?
Try aiming for about 65-67 oC, one step mash. Keep it simple.
This most likely means a starting water temperature of about 72 oC.
Cover kettle with duvets or blankets to keep the heat in. Mash for about 60 or 90 minutes.
What is your recipe? What malted grains?

 

[Minbari]

Can this effect the taste of the beer?
I'm preparing now for 3rd batch

It will taste sweeter

 

[Craigerrr]

70-72c is definitely too high for your mash
The temperature of the mash determines the level of enzymatic activity and therefore has a significant impact on the final beer. Different beer styles require different temperature ranges to achieve the desired results, with common temperature ranges ranging from 63°C to 68°C (148°F to 158°F).
Target 65-67 as Zambezi suggests.
At 70-72C the starches are still being converted to sugars, but they become long chain sugars which the yeast are unable to consume, this is why the beer will be "sweeter". For a drier beer (less sweet) mash low, for a sweeter beer like a Porter for instance, mash higher, but I would never suggest mashing higher than 68C.
I recommend that you pick up John Palmers book "How to Brew", it is a very dry read, but it is a great resource/teacher for the newer brewer.
You should be able to find an older version online, but the book is on amazon, and is not expensive.

 

[Mastoras007]

Stuck fermentations can result from a few different things.

The wort isn't fully fermentable. This is affected by mash temperature being too low or too high, or the recipe didn't have enough base grain to provide a fermentable wort.

The yeast health wasn't great. Not enough oxygen in the wort, or the yeast were too old or underpitched. You may also be lacking nutrients needed by the yeast, like calcium, zinc, and DAP. Also fermentation temperature greatly affects yeast's ability to ferment. Too cold and they will go dormant and stop metabolizing.

Overly bitter beer can be the result of the mash pH being too high. Brewers will add food save acid to decrease the pH to the correct zone.

Can you send us a link to the recipe you used for the 2nd batch, and tell us what kind of yeast you used?

water ph is 7 i check it alredy
this is recipe https://beginnerbrewer.com/biab-recipe-blonde-ale/
Yeast US-05

 

[Mastoras007]

How do you mash?
Try aiming for about 65-67 oC, one step mash. Keep it simple.
This most likely means a starting water temperature of about 72 oC.
Cover kettle with duvets or blankets to keep the heat in. Mash for about 60 or 90 minutes.
What is your recipe? What malted grains?

https://beginnerbrewer.com/biab-recipe-blonde-ale/
next batch i will!
yes my recipe say start 72 then keep 66
you say one step mash, meaning to skip mash out?

 

[Mastoras007]

70-72c is definitely too high for your mash
The temperature of the mash determines the level of enzymatic activity and therefore has a significant impact on the final beer. Different beer styles require different temperature ranges to achieve the desired results, with common temperature ranges ranging from 63°C to 68°C (148°F to 158°F).
Target 65-67 as Zambezi suggests.
At 70-72C the starches are still being converted to sugars, but they become long chain sugars which the yeast are unable to consume, this is why the beer will be "sweeter". For a drier beer (less sweet) mash low, for a sweeter beer like a Porter for instance, mash higher, but I would never suggest mashing higher than 68C.
I recommend that you pick up John Palmers book "How to Brew", it is a very dry read, but it is a great resource/teacher for the newer brewer.
You should be able to find an older version online, but the book is on amazon, and is not expensive.

my english is not so good yet, i can't read hole book,
but there is some stuf in Greek i can read any way.

i used a digital thermometer and the mistake was that i had stick it out of the pot, i belive that will show me the correct tempreture but after i dive it in the wort i saw a diffrent tempreture +6 celsius!
that's why i have so wrong mash tempreture.

 

[Sunfire96]

water ph is 7 i check it alredy
this is recipe https://beginnerbrewer.com/biab-recipe-blonde-ale/
Yeast US-05

Looks like a straightforward recipe. I would make sure you're keeping a consistent mash temp, and not going over 68' C. Keep stirring before taking a temperature reading to get a more accurate reading.

Are you able to measure the pH during the mash? Ideally the mash pH would be between 5.2-5.6. The grains can affect the pH a lot, and lighter beers tend to need acid additions to stay in range.

 

[Mastoras007]

Looks like a straightforward recipe. I would make sure you're keeping a consistent mash temp, and not going over 68' C. Keep stirring before taking a temperature reading to get a more accurate reading.

Are you able to measure the pH during the mash? Ideally the mash pH would be between 5.2-5.6. The grains can affect the pH a lot, and lighter beers tend to need acid additions to stay in range.

I just take a mesure of wort ph (from fermentor) is 6,
Water ph 7 wort ph 6, is this teling something?
i take the mesures from this paper with colours, you know, this wich change colour depending ph, so the mesure mabe is not so accurate, the sure is that was 7 and now drop to 6

 

[Sunfire96]

I just take a mesure of wort ph (from fermentor) is 6,
Water ph 7 wort ph 6, is this teling something?
i take the mesures from this paper with colours, you know, this wich change colour depending ph, so the mesure mabe is not so accurate, the sure is that was 7 and now drop to 6

If it's in the fermenter it should definitely be a lower pH, closer to 5. I think you need to add acid to your mash to lower the pH. I used lactic acid bought from my homebrew supply shop, but there are other acids you can use.

The water calculator on this website can help you determine how much acid to add as well.

 

[Minbari]

water ph is 7 i check it alredy
this is recipe https://beginnerbrewer.com/biab-recipe-blonde-ale/
Yeast US-05

Think she meant beer ph. Should be significantly less than 7

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

Here is a useful chart from the How To Brew book. It shows temperature and pH for various mashing processes. With modern malts we really don't need to worry about most of the steps. The Alpha and Beta Amylase conversions are what we are most interested in. The temperature and pH in the "Mash Target" zone is the compromise between the two.

 

[Minbari]

Here is a useful chart from the How To Brew book. It shows temperature and pH for various mashing processes. With modern malts we really don't need to worry about most of the steps. The Alpha and Beta Amylase conversions are what we are most interested in. The temperature and pH in the "Mash Target" zone is the compromise between the two.

View attachment 28403

This would explain why my beta glucanase does almost nothing. I was under the incorrect assumption that it was beta amylase.

Can't seem to find beta amylase to buy. Only alpha and Gluco-amylase

 

[Zambi]

https://beginnerbrewer.com/biab-recipe-blonde-ale/
next batch i will!
yes my recipe say start 72 then keep 66
you say one step mash, meaning to skip mash out?

With biab you do not need to mash out as you just remove the bag with grains from the wort.
I don't think it will do any harm though.

As for pH, it is not the water pH that is important but the mash pH.
What you can do is get some iodine to test the conversion. To be honest, I should follow my own advice as I have never done it.

Your recipe looks like a beer I would like. Now if you can't keep the right temperatures for US-05, you can use a different yeast

 

[Mastoras007]

ow if you can't keep the right temperatures for US-05, you can use a different yeast

The fermatantion temprature is not a problem, i have control system i can keep it 19-20 stable, i use warming cable.
the mash tempreture was the problem.
any way i hope that the problem both o my batch was the mash tempreture, i will now older my next recipe ingredients and start over with caution this time

 

[Mastoras007]

is there any chance that heating the beer during fermentation from my heating control system could kill the yeast?
i use a coiled heating cable with a thermostat which keeps it at 19-20 degrees it works every 30 minutes or so for 1-2 minutes.
it can reach max 40 degrees celsius, but as i mentioned it works for 1-2 minutes evenly until it raises the temperature, it starts at 19.5 and stops at 20

 

[Mastoras007]