Do I have yeast?

[AsharaDayne]

I've tried to rinse the trub/yeast cake in order to reuse S-04 yeast for a brew I am planning.

However, I'm not sure whether I really caught any.

I am trying to upload a picture of the jar I have. Been sitting in the fridge for 10 days. As you can see, there's a thick coarse greyish layer, and a basically clear, colored layer above (looks like a cloudy layer in between but that's just an image artifact. Does it look like it holds yeast, and if so, which part?

Isn't it supposed to look more like the yeast cake, very fine and light grey?

Of course I could just toss it into the wort, but I thought I'd ask the community first.

 

[AsharaDayne]

Perhaps I should add some specifics of how I "rinsed": On the remaining cake, with a tiny bit of brew remaining, I added the amount of water this jar holds. I swirled it around some and poured back in as much as it could hold. That's pretty much it.
Water and jar were both sanitized by boiling, and I had cooled both down to room temp.

 

[newmanwell]

It's hard to tell for sure but I bet you got a mix of yeast and other sediment as well.

 

[GFHomebrew]

There would be some yeast in there Ashar but it doesn't look like a whole heap to me more trub than anything. When washing yeast from the cake use a jar 4 times the size of your final jar.

1 pour in 1 large jar of pre boiled and cooled water to fermentor adjetate. Let sit for a little bit.
2 pour off liquid back into large jar (try just pouring top layer). Leave for a minute or two until you see the trub start to settle on bottom of jar.
3 pour off top layer into smaller jars mason type jars. You should get a cleaner yeast sample this way.
Put your washed yeast straight into the fridge it will settle quicker in there.

I don't wash my yeast or use any slurry for my brews I collect a small amount from my starters.

With that jar of s04 make a liter starter to see how viable the yeast are either use that or step it up to two liter starter to ensure good ale cell count. Hope this makes some sense

You tube yeast washing.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

put in the fridge for 24 hours, the yeast will be the lighter layer

 

[J A]

If I'm going back on the same yeast soon enough, I just pitch the new wort (cooled to proper temp) right into the fermenter on the old cake and rock it around good to get it broken up. Given that I'm not separating any yeast from break material that way, I don't usually worry much about it when I save the cake for later use. I'll just fill up a quart jar with water and cake and let it settle in the fridge. If I can pour off the water without disturbing too much, I'll spoon off the yeast layer. If it gets too stirred up while I'm getting rid of the water, I'll just dump the whole thing in. You need to make sure you have a big enough fermenter because you're adding extra and taking up volume and also the addition of that much yeast usually leads to extremely vigorous fermentation. Have a blow-off tube at the ready.
The secret to my casual methodology is that I don't reuse cake on very different styles of beer. Very similar hops with the least hoppy beer or least distinctive hops first and more hoppy beer/ stronger flavored hops coming later and lighter beers before darker or roasty ones... Blonde/Pale/IPA or DIPA...Light Lager/Pils/Maibock...Ordinary Bitter/Brown Ale/Stout.

 

[AsharaDayne]

Yup, I guess my rinsing method wasn't on point...

Anyway, I just shook the jar up a bit and poured what I had in the fermentor, fingers crossed. I know, I should have made a starter, but of course, I'd already prepared my wort. Make mistakes and learn... Also, I believe these yeasts are pretty resilient.
24 hours later, it seems to have taken off, airlock about to gurgle.

 

[J A]

It'll work.

 

[AsharaDayne]

It worked like a charm, in fact. Guess it took a while to multiply, but then it did the job. Brew's just waiting for the bottle.J

 

[J A]

If the S-04 is under-pitched and stressed, it may give you some "interesting" fruit ester, but will probably be pretty bready, depending on temp. Either way, it'll clear and clean up nicely. Even better if you let it rest in the fermenter a little longer than it seems necessary. That stuff makes beer fast, but given time, it really cleans up. If you're bottling, it'll age nicely in there. Sample after a week or so and then again at 3 to 4. I'll bet the difference will be pretty pronounced.
I just pulled a Maris Otter/EKG/S-04 SMASH off to keg it because I needed the fermenter for another brew. It was dead clear and tasting wonderful at about 9 days, having finished and dropped clear about day 6. When I got it in the keg and started pulling the first samples, I got strong cherry cough drop notes. As the samples are clearing of yeast, the clean malt/slight bready character is coming back, so I expect that a lot of the fruitiness is in the yeast itself. I think it'll age out and be very clean tasting, but I definitely would have been better off leaving it in the fermenter for another several days, at least.
Hope your beer turns out great!

 

[AsharaDayne]

JA, could you describe what you mean by bready? A smell/taste like bread dough/bread yeast?

I've bottled it over the weekend and there's a peculiar "unctuousness" to the brew (a Sorachi Ace / Glacier IPA attempt), reminiscent of cream, or butter. I've read that Sorachi can do that.
I don't think I get much in the way of yeast flavours - so I guess the S-04 really did its job and wasn't too stressed

 

[GFHomebrew]

It may be a diacetyl issue I hear that's supposed to give you a buttery popcorn smell especially as it warms up.

 

[AsharaDayne]

It may be a diacetyl issue I hear that's supposed to give you a buttery popcorn smell especially as it warms up.

It's more of a texture than a smell. I wouldn't compare it to popcorn either... but maybe it is that. In which case the yeast did not perform that well after all.

I don't know, diacetyl is described as a rather undesirable off taste, but I don't find this "texture" unpleasant.

 

[J A]

The bready notes I usually get are more often in conjunction with certain grains (Maris Otter, etc), but the yeast definitely has a slight fresh-baked or toasty bread flavor. Typical rich yeasty flavor and it tends to fade sooner or later. In brews with more dry-malty grains, it's subdued and doesn't hang around as long.
It's really unlikely that this yeast would give you any diacetyl. Depending on how you hopped it, especially with Sorachi, you can get some notes that might fool you into thinking there was something else going on. That accompanied by any grain in the bill that's giving you rich mouthfeel can give the impression of a savory flavor. The Sorachi that I have gives a really pleasant dill note and the very light Saison I did with T-58 had a really rich, creamy body and slightly lingering mouthfeel even though it was an .038 OG beer.

 

[Nosybear]

It's more of a texture than a smell. I wouldn't compare it to popcorn either... but maybe it is that. In which case the yeast did not perform that well after all.

I don't know, diacetyl is described as a rather undesirable off taste, but I don't find this "texture" unpleasant.

Diacetyl may not be undesirable. I've had some beers, particularly Czech pilsners, that use diacetyl to very good effect, lending a pleasant butterscotch flavor to the beer. Lots of English ales have it as a part of their flavor profile in very small amounts. The reason it gets a bad rap is it oxidizes to some rather unpleasant rancid butter flavors and aromas after a while, diminishing shelf life of the beer. One give-away that diacetyl is present is a "slick" mouthfeel, oily or waxy. I don't get "popcorn" from diacetyl, usually just a slight buttery flavor.

 

[AsharaDayne]

JA, I was quite generous with the Sorachi: 70g SA @50 mins / 15g SA @5 mins / 15g SA + 20g Glacier @0 mins, for 1.067 OG (from dry extract and sugar, no grains), for an IBU of 79.16 and a BUGU of 1.23. A bit on the bitter side.

Nosybear, butterscotch is a kind of caramel or toffee, right? I'm not really getting that, not taste wise anyhow. Slick mouthfeel, yes. Someone on the Internet mentioned coconut cream in relation to Sorachi Ace and maybe that comment preconditioned my taste experience, but I do think it kinda matches the feel.

 

[J A]

Just a tip...save your "specialty" hops like Sorachi for flavoring. Get a few ounces of Magnum (high alpha and very smooth) and keep them around for bittering additions in brews like this. That gives you a good deal of very tasty bitterness with a small amount of hops and allows you to use those flavor and aroma hops to their best advantage.

 

[AsharaDayne]

That makes sense. I guess you wouldn't get all the character from a specialty hop used for bittering.
Too late for the SA, but I have a PG+Perle going and now that you mention it, I think I want to do a Magnum+PG brew for comparison.

 

[J A]

Magnum is your friend.

 

[Nosybear]

JA, I was quite generous with the Sorachi: 70g SA @50 mins / 15g SA @5 mins / 15g SA + 20g Glacier @0 mins, for 1.067 OG (from dry extract and sugar, no grains), for an IBU of 79.16 and a BUGU of 1.23. A bit on the bitter side.

Nosybear, butterscotch is a kind of caramel or toffee, right? I'm not really getting that, not taste wise anyhow. Slick mouthfeel, yes. Someone on the Internet mentioned coconut cream in relation to Sorachi Ace and maybe that comment preconditioned my taste experience, but I do think it kinda matches the feel.

Sorachi Ace tastes just like a dill pickle to me, without the garlic. The slick mouthfeel is pretty much a give-away that there's diacetyl in there. Butterscotch isn't caramel or toffee, rather a kind of buttery flavored candy, usually hard. I rather like the taste (but then, I don't mind diacetyl in my beer as long as it's fresh and the diacetyl isn't overwhelming). And reference the discussion above about bittering hops, keep in mind, they don't provide just bitterness. Want to see for your self? Make a hop tea: Boil your hops in water for 60 minutes. Smell at the end of the boil. You will still smell "hop character." I did this with Perle a while back. About 30 minutes in, they smelled like mint. At about 60 minutes, like old, shriveled mint, not very pleasant at all. But they still smelled, meaning they're still providing some contribution in terms of flavor and aroma. Hence, as mentioned, Magnum is your friend.