Difference between Palmer recipe and BF Recipe Editor

[SpartyBrew]

Hello...first post here.

I'm doing my first BIAB brew this week. I chose the "Oatis Brown" recipe from John Palmer's "How to Brew" book. It's the recommended first recipe in Chapter 20.

I thought I would punch the recipe into the Brewers Friend recipe editor just to learn how to use the tool. When I got everything entered, the Original and Final Gravity show 1.029 and 1.011, respectively with an ABV of 2.3. That differs from the recipe in Palmer's book which is 1.052, 1.013, and 5.2%.

I double checked the grain amounts and they seem to be correct. The water amounts are good. I'm at a loss for what the difference is and now my confidence in the recipe is shaken somewhat (I sure don't want a "lite" brown ale).

I know it must be a rookie mistake on my part, but I just don't see it. Any thoughts? I called the recipe "Larry's First Brown Ale" and it's public.

 

[White Haus Brews]

Right now your efficiency is set at 35%, most recipes assume around 75% but it will vary based on your system. Since it's your first BIAB you won't know for sure until after you get a few batches under your belt but I would start with around 65%. I also BIAB and usually get in the mid 60's%

 

[Craigerrr]

Others far more experienced than I will chime in, I wonder though if the mash temp being so high is what is bringing the OG, and the ABV down. I typically plan for my mash to start at 152, and it usually finishes around 150F.

 

[White Haus Brews]

Others far more experienced than I will chime in, I wonder though if the mash temp being so high is what is bringing the OG, and the ABV down. I typically plan for my mash to start at 152, and it usually finishes around 150F.

It is on the high end for mash temp but that shouldn't affect the OG, just the FG.

When I copy the recipe over and change the efficiency to 75% I get an estimated OG of of 1.061 with an estimated ABV of 5.29%.

This is also why it's great to have a recipe program because it's not always easy to know what efficiency a recipe you find online or in a book is using. Cheers and welcome to BF!

 

[SpartyBrew]

Right now your efficiency is set at 35%, most recipes assume around 75% but it will vary based on your system. Since it's your first BIAB you won't know for sure until after you get a few batches under your belt but I would start with around 65%. I also BIAB and usually get in the mid 60's%

Eureka! I wonder why the default is so low? Changing the efficiency seems to be it. I changed it to 65% as you suggested and it changed the gravity to 1.053 OG, 1.018 FG, and 4.5 ABV. That's a good spot to start tweaking. Thank you!

 

[SpartyBrew]

Others far more experienced than I will chime in, I wonder though if the mash temp being so high is what is bringing the OG, and the ABV down. I typically plan for my mash to start at 152, and it usually finishes around 150F.

I knocked the temp down to 152 as you suggested and my FG and ABV are now closer to what I was shooting for. Thank you.

Wow...I've been on this forum less than an hour and I've already gotten awesome help. You guys rock!

 

[White Haus Brews]

Eureka! I wonder why the default is so low? Changing the efficiency seems to be it. I changed it to 65% as you suggested and it changed the gravity to 1.053 OG, 1.018 FG, and 4.5 ABV. That's a good spot to start tweaking. Thank you!

Not sure why the default would start so low but it's likely coming from your equipment profile settings. You can change it by going to "My Equipment" and there you'll be able to update all kinds of things about your brewing system which will be more useful as you get a few brews under your belt so you know what to expect for things like efficiency, grain absorption, boil off, etc...

 

[J A]

Eureka! I wonder why the default is so low?

Do you have your Brew Method set to Extract? The 35% the default setting for steeping grains. I think if you set to BIAB, the default probably is set higher. Also, you have control over all the defaults in your profile, but the trial membership may not allow you to reset them.

 

[Craigerrr]

I knocked the temp down to 152 as you suggested and my FG and ABV are now closer to what I was shooting for. Thank you.

Wow...I've been on this forum less than an hour and I've already gotten awesome help. You guys rock!

I just started brewing this February, and joined this forum in March. The help and support I have received here is phenomenal!
Welcome to the board, and the welcome to the craft!

 

[Nosybear]

Eureka! I wonder why the default is so low? Changing the efficiency seems to be it. I changed it to 65% as you suggested and it changed the gravity to 1.053 OG, 1.018 FG, and 4.5 ABV. That's a good spot to start tweaking. Thank you!

The default is based on extract-and-steep, not all-grain. Changing the efficiency to get the yield you want is not the way the recipe builder was designed. As mentioned above, changing the mash temperature won't affect the original gravity, it will change the final gravity and the overall taste of the beer. In other words, instead of mucking with the efficiency, change the method of brewing from extract to all-grain and keep the defaults until you know what your process and system do.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Maybe palmer was mashing high for some unfermentable sugars or high finishing gravity in this beer to give it a bigger mouthfeel go too low and it will thin it out some and you may have a thin watery brown ale on your hands. Id stick with what guidelines hes set (heck he knows his shoits) and as above adjust your profile for Biab and get elbows deep in your first Mash!

 

[SpartyBrew]

The default is based on extract-and-steep, not all-grain. Changing the efficiency to get the yield you want is not the way the recipe builder was designed. As mentioned above, changing the mash temperature won't affect the original gravity, it will change the final gravity and the overall taste of the beer. In other words, instead of mucking with the efficiency, change the method of brewing from extract to all-grain and keep the defaults until you know what your process and system do.

I chose the BIAB method. Changing that between BIAB and all-grain doesn't seem to have an effect (if I'm understanding you correctly). I see what you mean by not just changing the efficiency, though. The gravity is just not reconciling with what Palmer came up with. I'm sure his recipe will probably work out, I just don't have a good enough understanding of the relationships yet to know what I'm doing wrong with the recipe builder. It'll be fun figuring it out and learning. I really appreciate the help.

 

[Texas Ale Works]

Welcome,

This is what I would do...

Start again and build the recipe again with a different name....
Do not change any of the default settings, select BIAB as your brewing style ans see what happens.

Maybe you mucked with a different setting and don't realize it.

Then when that is all done, just change the brew method from BIAB to extract and see what changes

T

 

[Nosybear]

^^^^^ Seems like a good approach to me.

 

[SpartyBrew]

Welcome,

This is what I would do...

Start again and build the recipe again with a different name....
Do not change any of the default settings, select BIAB as your brewing style ans see what happens.

Maybe you mucked with a different setting and don't realize it.

Then when that is all done, just change the brew method from BIAB to extract and see what changes

T

Worth a shot...I'll give it a whirl!

 

[J A]

You could post a link to the recipe in question and you'd get some specific insights about what's going on.

 

[Nosybear]

Just a note, when I plug others' recipes into the Recipe Editor I often get slightly different results than published. No big deal, and nothing of the magnitude you describe. Something is wrong: Have you checked to make sure you are not entering kilograms where pounds are set as the unit of measure? If you had pounds selected as the units of measure and entered the kilogram weight, you'd be off by about 50% on your gravity. There's not that much of a difference between quarts and liters so that measurement wouldn't affect the final outcome as much.

 

[Texas Ale Works]

"https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/694562"

 

[Nosybear]

1.053 from that grain bill and batch size looks about right. Are you sure Palmer's recipe isn't incorrect (I've caught him a time or two being off by a unit or two)?

 

[SpartyBrew]

You could post a link to the recipe in question and you'd get some specific insights about what's going on.

I'm looking for it online. It is the "Oatis Brown Ale" from John Palmer's book. It's the one he suggests as the first all-grain batch.