Brewing with Ceoliac Disease

[Box of Rocks]

Sorry to hear Ben. Life throws some punches sometimes, and you’ve gotta roll with them. Hang in there!

Sorghum is huge in some regions for beer, and many Chinese consume lots of high-end baijiu made from fermenting sorghum. Many toasts at dinners. Been interested in trying to brew with sorghum sometime

 

[west1m]

Wow that malt is exy $16/kg

Think that is bad, wait until you start looking at bread , hot dog / hamburger buns and things like dinner rolls cake or anything else you are used to eating.
My woman has the celiac thing and it is a pain.
Hopefully you will be able to find GF bread products where you are located. But things like going out to eat, no fish fries ( the fish are breaded) usually no fries as they are cooked in a fryer where they cook breaded foods. Gravy on your mashed potatoes nope, Pizza? Got a GF crust? Want a burger? Do you have GFbuns? Forget corn dogs at the fair. The list goes on and on..... Whisky, no no no... Vodka. , well maybe Titos or Tower... Captain Morgan is good, I call it Bitch in a bottle. Wine , Rum ok though.
Even oats screw her up.

 

[Zambi]

That sounds bad @west1m !

 

[west1m]

Kind of an ahole aint I

 

[GFHomebrew]

Think that is bad, wait until you start looking at bread , hot dog / hamburger buns and things like dinner rolls cake or anything else you are used to eating.
My woman has the celiac thing and it is a pain.
Hopefully you will be able to find GF bread products where you are located. But things like going out to eat, no fish fries ( the fish are breaded) usually no fries as they are cooked in a fryer where they cook breaded foods. Gravy on your mashed potatoes nope, Pizza? Got a GF crust? Want a burger? Do you have GFbuns? Forget corn dogs at the fair. The list goes on and on..... Whisky, no no no... Vodka. , well maybe Titos or Tower... Captain Morgan is good, I call it Bitch in a bottle. Wine , Rum ok though.
Even oats screw her up.

Yeah I'll be visiting the GF bakery here it supplies all of Aus major food chains.i do the pest control there so Lucky I know.
I'll have to stop bagging there products lol!

 

[Kekkec]

Hey sorry to hear that. My better half has been suffering from that since she was 6 mths old, so i had to adapt certain principles about homebrewing.
-It really depends on your intolerance to gluten (like my gf said, 95% of people that have that condition, have low side effects coming in contact with gluten and can pretty much easily eat stuff that has the "may contain trace amounts of gluten" label, and the rest 5% can really suffer from side effects. Hopefully you're in the 95%)
-Doctors that treat my better half said you can still drink beer daily, up to 3 units (0,5l), if the beer contains less than 20 ppm of gluten
-I've read about gluten free practices (dont remember if it was in Palmers How to brew or in the Alworth's Beer bible), that compaines in EU actually use gluten free grains, while the US made a practice of "Cold crashing the beer and skimming from the top" since gluten is a protein, and "should" drop from suspension, combined with a coagulant and a filter you can pretty much make any beer "Gluten free" to standards. I'm just not sure how that applies to homebrew practices

 

[GFHomebrew]

Hey sorry to hear that. My better half has been suffering from that since she was 6 mths old, so i had to adapt certain principles about homebrewing.
-It really depends on your intolerance to gluten (like my gf said, 95% of people that have that condition, have low side effects coming in contact with gluten and can pretty much easily eat stuff that has the "may contain trace amounts of gluten" label, and the rest 5% can really suffer from side effects. Hopefully you're in the 95%)
-Doctors that treat my better half said you can still drink beer daily, up to 3 units (0,5l), if the beer contains less than 20 ppm of gluten
-I've read about gluten free practices (dont remember if it was in Palmers How to brew or in the Alworth's Beer bible), that compaines in EU actually use gluten free grains, while the US made a practice of "Cold crashing the beer and skimming from the top" since gluten is a protein, and "should" drop from suspension, combined with a coagulant and a filter you can pretty much make any beer "Gluten free" to standards. I'm just not sure how that applies to homebrew practices

Cheers so do I.
Yeah Brulosophy did a experiment on clarityferm with vs without and he tested both beers with a home gluten test kit that can measure gluten above 20ppm which is the threshold for most regulations.

Well both beers were under the 20ppm.
Through listening to a brulab poddy yesterday on marketing your beer as "GF" the lady interviewed said its hard to test beer using a gluten test kit and that most will test under the 20ppm but that yes the beer will contain traces of Gluten they just won't be detected with these test kits.
Yeast metabolise gluten the gluten is also as you say lautered and filtered either naturally through the cold break filtering ect.

But yup it comes down to how much one can tolerate which is the question.
I'm yet to find out where I stand in this equation

 

[Kekkec]

Cheers so do I.
Yeah Brulosophy did a experiment on clarityferm with vs without and he tested both beers with a home gluten test kit that can measure gluten above 20ppm which is the threshold for most regulations.

Well both beers were under the 20ppm.
Through listening to a brulab poddy yesterday on marketing your beer as "GF" the lady interviewed said its hard to test beer using a gluten test kit and that most will test under the 20ppm but that yes the beer will contain traces of Gluten they just won't be detected with these test kits.

As far as I know, the issue with these tests is, they're made for solid food, not for liquids
And the issues with the standards is; they're not really standardized. Like you said most rely on the 20ppm as being a threshold, (same as here in the EU), but there are also countries that have a 0 ppm policy or even up to a 100ppm. Thats why in some places they ask you "Do you have an allergy or intolerance"

 

[GFHomebrew]

So from what I've gleaned so far from the interwebs for me in my situation in Australia with the limited availability of malted GF grains is to go the DIY malting route.

I can buy a 20kg bag of bird feed (millet) for $52.
Similar prices when it comes to Sorghum and corn.
I didn't know but a fellow Aussie paved the way on this site

https://glutenfreehomebrewing.com/lavery_brewing_tutorial.php

When it comes to malting your own GF grains also that site is a wealth of info in regards to the Complicated mash schedule to getting good conversion out of the undermodified DIY millet sorgum buckwheat ect.

It looks like if I want to keep on brewing my own beer GF this is gunna be where and how ive gotta go about it.
Either that or get back to Sorgum Extract (which I've read has a certain sour/tang to it)

Malted Corn sounds good for a lager like bevvy and Millet has the best Diastatic power I've found with Sorghum next.


I guess my question to anyone on the Forum here is : What do you All know about Malting your own Grains at home?

If I'm gunna do this I want to be able to malt enough to atleast brew one GF Beer a month (I currently brew 2-3 times a month) so that's what 50kg ish a year .

I've been looking at drum rollers for the germination phase so I can Automate the process a little.
As for drying and kilning maybe a coffee roaster or something?

Anyhow this is just my thoughts projected onto the page at this stage.

I might in the meantime play around with malting just 1kg of feed grain and getting a feel for the process then do a mini mash and see what sorta conversion i get.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

I'd start with what I could buy until I made something that I liked and was happy with before exploring the malting route. Just malting and malting well could be a huge undertaking and you may not like the results.
Why not start with a reduced gluten recipe firsts and then go from there?
How about a cream ale base with 1/3 base malt, 1/3 corn, 1/3 rice and add clarity ferm?
If that doesn't affect you, you could easily build on this with non gluten adjuncts to build some different beer styles.

 

[Zambi]

Just found this
https://www.csiro.au/en/research/plants/crops/grains/kebari-barley
Maybe something to look into?

Something else, I recently made a beer with some pilsner malt and loads of wheat flour. Yes, that's not gluten free.
But maybe you can get a little malted whatever GF, and mix with corn flour/millet etc to keep cost down?

 

[GFHomebrew]

Just found this
https://www.csiro.au/en/research/plants/crops/grains/kebari-barley
Maybe something to look into?

Something else, I recently made a beer with some pilsner malt and loads of wheat flour. Yes, that's not gluten free.
But maybe you can get a little malted whatever GF, and mix with corn flour/millet etc to keep cost down?

Yeah spotted that the other day but that was 2016 CSIRO made a gluten free barley veriety.
It's my understanding that it's not available yet.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I'd start with what I could buy until I made something that I liked and was happy with before exploring the malting route. Just malting and malting well could be a huge undertaking and you may not like the results.
Why not start with a reduced gluten recipe firsts and then go from there?
How about a cream ale base with 1/3 base malt, 1/3 corn, 1/3 rice and add clarity ferm?
If that doesn't affect you, you could easily build on this with non gluten adjuncts to build some different beer styles.

Yeah I'll definitely give clarity ferm a crack.
You can buy sorgum extract here that will give you 1.020 og.
https://brewingbeerthehardway.wordpress.com/
Is another great information site that bloke even grows his own barley crazy!

I'd love to give malting a crack though

Think of it this way there are no Gluten Free grain Maltings in Australia that I've come across so far.
Not a bad business venture?
I rekon there would be more people that are gluten free in Aus and would love to either have better access to GF Beer or brew it themselves but unlike with barley the malted supply comes from America.

So far I've come across trading sites where you can buy direct from the farmer be it Sorghum or corn ect but you've gotta buy in the Tonnage not like I'm looking for the kg.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I was thinking of sessions before because of a lighter grain bill. On the same track, what about a Saison with the French strain of yeast?
That sh*t attenuates like hell, and that would take a lighter grain bill too.

 

[Donoroto]

Yeah I'll definitely give clarity ferm a crack.
You can buy sorgum extract here that will give you 1.020 og.
https://brewingbeerthehardway.wordpress.com/
Is another great information site that bloke even grows his own barley crazy!

I'd love to give malting a crack though

Think of it this way there are no Gluten Free grain Maltings in Australia that I've come across so far.
Not a bad business venture?
I rekon there would be more people that are gluten free in Aus and would love to either have better access to GF Beer or brew it themselves but unlike with barley the malted supply comes from America.

So far I've come across trading sites where you can buy direct from the farmer be it Sorghum or corn ect but you've gotta buy in the Tonnage not like I'm looking for the kg.

Maybe ask for a 50 kg "sample"?? Sure you'll prolly have to pay, but you never know if they might sell it to you!

 

[GFHomebrew]

Maybe ask for a 50 kg "sample"?? Sure you'll prolly have to pay, but you never know if they might sell it to you!

Found a local feed company just down the road from my joint.
Gunna buy some millet this arvo.
They sell 20kg bags I think either millet or corn probably millet as I've herd it's closest to barley and it's got good enzatic power if I play my cards right.

If I've got it correct I can do the soaking in a bucket overnight then when I get up drain and place in a large tray to air rinse repeat for 3-4 days until I see rootlets.

Then it's germination which I'm gathering is just more of the above until I see acrospire is 3/4 length of barley.

Then it's drying slowly then rub off the rootlets and acrospire.

Then kiln 50ish c 8 hours and I should have base grain for malting.

Mashing is wierd 40c beta glucan rest 20 mins then protine 55c then beta Amylase 65c now this is where it gets Tricky apparently GF grains s such as millet have a high geletanisation temp 85c I've read so to take a portion of the wort and decant (enzymes) off the mash then I've read brewers boil the grain let cool back to saccrification 70c and hold here add back your enzymatic wort for 90 mins..
I'm thinking of maybe doing decoctions to geletanise the grain instead of boiling the whole kettle I feel from what I've learned about brewing I'll keep more enzymes alive and geletanise the grain.

So maybe a quick double decoction from protein / Beta then one from Beta to Alpha Amylase step.
(So much for my quick brew days )!

It's all so much harder and complicated this GF brewing thing but I'm weirdly looking forward to the challenge !

*Oh and there are also toxins involved something to do with fungus growing on the grains which can lead to cancer something about first soak with Lye to clean the grain...

 

[GFHomebrew]

I think also malting you own Grains would be great for someone living remote.

Like @Zambezi Special taking your reliance off far away maltsters and HB stores maybe supplementing your brewing with feed grain might be an option.

I remember when I did my first AGbatch it was a bit overwhelming now I do it without much thought I rekon malting will just be a big learning curve and might make me a better brewer...

 

[Steve SPF]

Found a local feed company just down the road from my joint.
Gunna buy some millet this arvo...

Man, that all looks like a proper committment, hope you have some time on your hands there buddy

 

[Mark Farrall]

I'm sure you've checked out the You Tube offerings on home malting, but there's plenty. And one of the delightful side effects of not keeping the grains dry is ergot. It's astounding the number of things that historians think that ergot poisoning might have caused.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Man, that all looks like a proper committment, hope you have some time on your hands there buddy

Nope!
But always time for brewing beer if I need to GF.
Necessity has always been the mother of all inventions.

And where there is a demand someone will always rise to the challenge for the supply .