Bitter Brews

[JWR_12]

Beginner brewer again here. So I've been having a little problem with my beer coming out bitter. I'm pretty sure I haven't been using too much hops -- I'm really down to an oz of relatively mild hops, low Alpha acids, for a short period of time.

My latest batch I was using my kettle as a lauter tun and there was a brief (10 minute period) when the temperatures got too high (I'm thinking maybe as high as 170 or even 175 -- I turned the heat on to warm it a little as it lost heat and then forgot). My gravity levels came out fine. So at least I got the sugar out. But I'm wondering about tannins.

I've read that tannins cause a puckering sensation, but I'm not sure this is what I'm tasting. But it is a rather harsh bitterness, especially in the after taste.

The beer's been in the bottles for two weeks. Is this something that can settle out, or is this just going to be bitter? And for future batches, as an inexperienced all grain brewer, what should I be watching for to prevent unwanted bitterness? (For fun, here's my label).

 

[Minbari]

Bittering is a factor of a few things. But mostly it is the alpha acid % X how long you boil it.

So,
How large was the batch?
What hop variety?(do you know the alpha %)
How many oz?
How long was it boiled?

Other things that can accentuate bitterness is water additions. Gypsum, for example, will give a boost to perceived bitterness.

Residual sugar can also effect perceived bitterness. What was your OG and FG for the batch? If the batch dried out alot it will seem more bitter

 

[jschein]

If you are using tap water use a campden tablet to treat the chloride/chloramine.
If you are using a garden hose get an RV water hose

 

[Zambi]

Like minbari says...
And also: how did you cool your batch? If it's slow, like no chill, there is more time for the hops to release bitterness (obviously, if you discarded the hops, this doesn't apply)


The bitterness can get less with age

 

[Steve Ruch]

Bitterness from hops fades with time.

 

[JWR_12]

Thanks everyone!

 

[JWR_12]

Bittering is a factor of a few things. But mostly it is the alpha acid % X how long you boil it.

So,
How large was the batch?
What hop variety?(do you know the alpha %)
How many oz?
How long was it boiled?

Other things that can accentuate bitterness is water additions. Gypsum, for example, will give a boost to perceived bitterness.

Residual sugar can also effect perceived bitterness. What was your OG and FG for the batch? If the batch dried out alot it will seem more bitter

Hi! So it was a 4.5 gallon boil that yielded 3 gallons into the fermenter after an hour of boiling. I used 6 1/2 lbs of malts (5 lbs two row, 1 lb Vienna, 1/2 pound Munich). I mashed at 2 quarts/ lb., topping off with water (tap water all the way). I used 2 oz of hops on this schedule:

.5 Cascade (I think 7 AA) 50 minutes
.5 Motueka (like 5 aa) 20 mins
.5 Cascade (20 mins)
.5 Motueka (steeping).

I chilled it down with a chiller (about 20 mins).

SAF Ale 05 yeast.

Fermentation was slow.

I like the taste at wort stage, but now in bottles it's gotten bitter.

 

[Sunfire96]

Check out your target pH as well. If the mash pH is too high the beer will come out bitter

 

[Craigerrr]

Looks like you are new here, welcome!

Certainly doesn't seem to be a "too much hops" issue, or to be from the extra bittering effects of "no chill"
You mentioned tap water, are you on municipal water? chlorinated?
I'm not sure this would cause bitterness, but it definitely has a negative affect on your beer, you definitely need to take care of that
The campden tablet @jschein mentions will take care of the chorine.
pH may be a factor as @Sunfire96 suggests, if you are using brewing software it should predict your pH
With light colored beers the pH will normally need to be adjusted down, this is done easily by adding lactic acid, or by adding a small amount of acidulated malt. I personally use acidulated malt as I always forgot to add the lactic into the mash.
Dark colored beers typically need a bit of baking soda (my preferred method) to bring the pH up
About tannins, I don't know, to my knowledge I have never produced any, and actually have no clue what their affect would be
Cheers

 

[Sandy Feet]

2 oz in 5 gallons isn't much. In 3, it might be.

 

[JWR_12]

So, so far it seems folks are focusing on:

1) using Campden tablets to counteract chlorine;
2) Maybe 2 oz could be too much hops in 3 gals, perhaps backing off that some or changing time in boil;
3) Ph monitoring: I think our water around here is hard, so if anything it may be that my mash got too alkaline. I'll look into that.

But not so much the idea of tannins from an overly hot mash, which was my original suspicion. Does that sound right? I can troubleshoot these three pretty easily in future batches.

Thanks!

 

[Donoroto]

So, so far it seems folks are focusing on:

1) using Campden tablets to counteract chlorine;
2) Maybe 2 oz could be too much hops in 3 gals, perhaps backing off that some or changing time in boil;
3) Ph monitoring: I think our water around here is hard, so if anything it may be that my mash got too alkaline. I'll look into that.

But not so much the idea of tannins from an overly hot mash, which was my original suspicion. Does that sound right? I can troubleshoot these three pretty easily in future batches.

Thanks!

If you want to taste what tannins taste like, get a teabag and make some tea, but let it steep in hot water for far too long, like 20 minutes. That dry, astringent taste will be tannins.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

I don't know the formula but tannins can be extracted based on time, temperature and pH. So that is a possibility. Check with your local water company. They should be able to tell you the pH. If your municipal water supply is from wells, ask them if they cycle drawing water from different wells throughout the year. If you are drawing water from your own well then sending some away for analysis is your only option. Ward Labs is the best known water analysis company.

Also, as mentioned, a dry beer will seem more bitter. What was your FG?

 

[JWR_12]

I don't know the formula but tannins can be extracted based on time, temperature and pH. So that is a possibility. Check with your local water company. They should be able to tell you the pH. If your municipal water supply is from wells, ask them if they cycle drawing water from different wells throughout the year. If you are drawing water from your own well then sending some away for analysis is your only option. Ward Labs is the best known water analysis company.

Also, as mentioned, a dry beer will seem more bitter. What was your FG?

Thanks!

My FG was 1.006, from an OG of 1.048

 

[JWR_12]

If you want to taste what tannins taste like, get a teabag and make some tea, but let it steep in hot water for far too long, like 20 minutes. That dry, astringent taste will be tannins.

I think one possible problem with me tasting astringent flavors that way is I drink far too much tea, far too overbrewed! So I may have a bit of a tolerance built up there.

 

[Minbari]

So, so far it seems folks are focusing on:

1) using Campden tablets to counteract chlorine;
2) Maybe 2 oz could be too much hops in 3 gals, perhaps backing off that some or changing time in boil;
3) Ph monitoring: I think our water around here is hard, so if anything it may be that my mash got too alkaline. I'll look into that.

But not so much the idea of tannins from an overly hot mash, which was my original suspicion. Does that sound right? I can troubleshoot these three pretty easily in future batches.

Thanks!

I think it's pretty much it. 2oz for nearly the entire boil due 3 gals would be getting into bitter territory.

Also, an FG of 1.006 is very dry, no sugar to counter act any of the bitter that is there

 

[Sunfire96]

So, so far it seems folks are focusing on:

1) using Campden tablets to counteract chlorine;
2) Maybe 2 oz could be too much hops in 3 gals, perhaps backing off that some or changing time in boil;
3) Ph monitoring: I think our water around here is hard, so if anything it may be that my mash got too alkaline. I'll look into that.

But not so much the idea of tannins from an overly hot mash, which was my original suspicion. Does that sound right? I can troubleshoot these three pretty easily in future batches.

Thanks!

If you have access to your municipal water report, you can enter all of the info into a water profile here on Brewer's Friend. Then the water calculator in the recipe builder will predict the pH of your mash, and even tell you how much of a certain acid to use to hit your target. My local homebrew shop sells small bottles of 88% lactic acid and I usually add 0.5-2 mL per batch depending on the grain bill. Some folks will probably recommend getting a pH meter, but it just depends on how much money/effort you want to put into it

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Check out your target pH as well. If the mash pH is too high the beer will come out bitter

Yes! (Ed McMahon voice). If your water is alkaline, you are likely pitching your yeast in a high pH wort. Pitch pH is actually more important than mash pH when it comes to the overall quality of your beer. If you are making beer with extract, use all RO water or distilled water. If you are brewing with all grain, watch your pH through out the process. Your pitch pH should be 5.1-5.2 for lighter beers and 5.2-5.3 for darker beers.

To test this theory, pour some of your beer in a glass, taste it and note the bitterness. Add a drop of 88% lactic acid or 85% phosphoric acid (a tooth pick works really well) and taste it again. If the pH is too high, the bitterness will be reduced by the acid addition. You can add more acid to see how far you can take it, eventually you will taste the acid.

Unfermented wort taste way more bitter than the finished beer. This is due in part to the reduced pH caused during fermentation.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

@JWR_12 a lot has been suggested that all have merit. These should all be noted and considered going forward.
One thing not mentioned is age of the beer.
Yeast in suspension can also taste bitter.
Let your beer condition for a couple of weeks and then carefully pour into a glass without disturbing the sediment at the bottom.
This is assuming you're bottling.
Cheers
Brian

 

[JWR_12]

Thanks everyone: one quick question to follow up on something @Minbari said. My beer was OG 1.048 and ended up reaching FG 1.006, which if I understand is quite dry, unable to balance the hops / bitterness.

What can I do to keep the beer from going that dry? I’m guessing you can’t stop yeast from doing what it’s going to do, so would that happen on the mashing side (more unfermentable sugars) etc.? I’m guessing I should shoot for a FG of like 1.010 if I’m trying to also have hoppier flavors? This beer was my attempt at an American pale ish type thing.