Bitter Brews

Aren't IBUs actually measureable? I mean, a laboratory can analyze the compounds in a sample and come up with a fairly accurate number for IBU, right? Or am I mis-remembering again?

For me, IBUs are a broad guideline. 50 is prominent, 20 is not. There's a sliding scale between them...
 
Donoroto said:
Aren't IBUs actually measureable? I mean, a laboratory can analyze the compounds in a sample and come up with a fairly accurate number for IBU, right? Or am I mis-remembering again?

For me, IBUs are a broad guideline. 50 is prominent, 20 is not. There's a sliding scale between them...
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They are. But perception is different person to person and hop to hop. Plus they mainly measure AA as far as I know. There is alot more to hops then just aa at this point.
 
Bigbre04 said:
They are. But perception is different person to person and hop to hop. Plus they mainly measure AA as far as I know. There is alot more to hops then just aa at this point.
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Agreed. But if, say, Budweiser needed to know if they had the right utilization number, there's a way for money to answer that.

Bitterness is fine, but many of us seek the aroma instead.
 
Donoroto said:
Agreed. But if, say, Budweiser needed to know if they had the right utilization number, there's a way for money to answer that.

Bitterness is fine, but many of us seek the aroma instead.
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Absolutely. I'm sure they have the cash to tell EXACTLY what is in each batch. Not just AA but all compounds.

Plus I highly doubt they are using standard hops, probably resin or something similar where they have a higher level of control of what they are adding.
 
Donoroto said:
Aren't IBUs actually measureable? I mean, a laboratory can analyze the compounds in a sample and come up with a fairly accurate number for IBU, right? Or am I mis-remembering again?

For me, IBUs are a broad guideline. 50 is prominent, 20 is not. There's a sliding scale between them...
Click to expand...
They're measurable, but the test they use is anything that appears in a particular spectrum on the machine they're using (GCM I think). It's close to isomerised alpha acids, but it also includes other things, some of which aren't bitter. And the test misses other compounds, some of which are nearly as bitter as isomerised alpha acids. And the formulae we have access to give numbers miles away from what the lab will give you.

Though, as has already been said, it's a serviceable tool for judging the bitterness you get through boiling hops. Even though it gives the wrong numbers compared to the lab test.
 
Whirlpool and “0” minute additions add to bitterness. It’s a perception that is hard to quantify. That’s why my first post mentioned pH. If it seems that bitterness is too high, drop some acid into it and see if the bitterness drops. It almost always does.
 
Thanks everyone. I think, upon drinking more of the bitter swill I made, that it's got a range of problems. It's also over carbonated, which I think is adding to the bitterness. It's funny -- I thought I was really dialed in when I made this one, but I clearly screwed up a few different details.
 
JWR_12 said:
Thanks everyone. I think, upon drinking more of the bitter swill I made, that it's got a range of problems. It's also over carbonated, which I think is adding to the bitterness. It's funny -- I thought I was really dialed in when I made this one, but I clearly screwed up a few different details.
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You can drink it, you didn't have to dump it, so it aint too bad!
I learned an enormous lot from everyone on this forum, so keep asking questions and enjoy the hobby
 
I’m not sure if this tracks with any common experiences, but I find it funny that as I try to get better, I make worse beer. What I mean is that after like 20 years of not brewing, last summer a group of friends and I made a quick batch of extract beer, totally winging it. Just 5 lbs of malt, some yeast, a pack of Perle hops, chilled it with ice, came out great. Rekindled my love of brewing. So now, months later, having geared up, read books, moved to all grain, upgraded equipment at considerable expense, studied, used calculators, measured…and made bitter awful swill! Actually, I’ve made several partial mash and even all grain beers and I’m still getting back to the delights of that first raw extract just winging it beer. :). I’m not bitter myself about it. I think it’s just growing pains having to do with shooting for things that are more sophisticated or intentional and ending up missing details. I also think all grain is just a little finickier than extract. I enjoy it. But I’m wondering if this is just how it is — the first batches you make are great, and then you go through a learning curve making less than ideal beers until you get your process truly down and then you come back up.
 
JWR_12 said:
I’m not sure if this tracks with any common experiences, but I find it funny that as I try to get better, I make worse beer. What I mean is that after like 20 years of not brewing, last summer a group of friends and I made a quick batch of extract beer, totally winging it. Just 5 lbs of malt, some yeast, a pack of Perle hops, chilled it with ice, came out great. Rekindled my love of brewing. So now, months later, having geared up, read books, moved to all grain, upgraded equipment at considerable expense, studied, used calculators, measured…and made bitter awful swill! Actually, I’ve made several partial mash and even all grain beers and I’m still getting back to the delights of that first raw extract just winging it beer. :). I’m not bitter myself about it. I think it’s just growing pains having to do with shooting for things that are more sophisticated or intentional and ending up missing details. I also think all grain is just a little finickier than extract. I enjoy it. But I’m wondering if this is just how it is — the first batches you make are great, and then you go through a learning curve making less than ideal beers until you get your process truly down and then you come back up.
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At least, I hope you come back up!
 
There really is a lot to learn, and experience is the best teacher. Think of your recent experiences this way. Brewing beer is essentially cooking. You nailed some hot dogs on your first attempt, and you can mostly thank Oscar Meyer for that. Now you tried to cook Steak Dianne, and it didn't go so well. Maybe try to rebrew this beer until you get it the way you want it to be. There is a mountain of knowledge to climb, and there are no short cuts to the top. Brew, learn, repeat.
 
Just hang in there.

My first all grain beer, I was chuffed. I made lots of mistakes, but I made beer and I could drink it and it was nice.
My expectations were not high.

My next couple of brews: I can do this, I got it sorted. Expectations medium-high, knowledge still lacking, so I was a little disappointed.
 
JWR_12 said:
I’m not sure if this tracks with any common experiences, but I find it funny that as I try to get better, I make worse beer. What I mean is that after like 20 years of not brewing, last summer a group of friends and I made a quick batch of extract beer, totally winging it. Just 5 lbs of malt, some yeast, a pack of Perle hops, chilled it with ice, came out great. Rekindled my love of brewing. So now, months later, having geared up, read books, moved to all grain, upgraded equipment at considerable expense, studied, used calculators, measured…and made bitter awful swill! Actually, I’ve made several partial mash and even all grain beers and I’m still getting back to the delights of that first raw extract just winging it beer. :). I’m not bitter myself about it. I think it’s just growing pains having to do with shooting for things that are more sophisticated or intentional and ending up missing details. I also think all grain is just a little finickier than extract. I enjoy it. But I’m wondering if this is just how it is — the first batches you make are great, and then you go through a learning curve making less than ideal beers until you get your process truly down and then you come back up.
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Biggest difference with extract is that all the hard work was done for you. ;)

There is a learning curve, just don't be too hard on yourself. All grain, once you get it, is a much more satisfying experience and you have control to make it what you want
 
Donoroto said:
Aren't IBUs actually measureable? I mean, a laboratory can analyze the compounds in a sample and come up with a fairly accurate number for IBU, right? Or am I mis-remembering again?

For me, IBUs are a broad guideline. 50 is prominent, 20 is not. There's a sliding scale between them...
Click to expand...
My understanding is that their a shit shoot to actually measure correctly then the methods used to measure them are a bit unreliable more so for late boil WB bitterness contributions.
 
As @Craigerrr wrote: Brew this beer several times, keeping careful notes, until you get it how you want it. It took me more than a year of brewing Hefeweitzen before I finally dialed that recipe in.
 
JWR_12 said:
Beginner brewer again here. So I've been having a little problem with my beer coming out bitter. I'm pretty sure I haven't been using too much hops -- I'm really down to an oz of relatively mild hops, low Alpha acids, for a short period of time.

My latest batch I was using my kettle as a lauter tun and there was a brief (10 minute period) when the temperatures got too high (I'm thinking maybe as high as 170 or even 175 -- I turned the heat on to warm it a little as it lost heat and then forgot). My gravity levels came out fine. So at least I got the sugar out. But I'm wondering about tannins.

I've read that tannins cause a puckering sensation, but I'm not sure this is what I'm tasting. But it is a rather harsh bitterness, especially in the after taste.

The beer's been in the bottles for two weeks. Is this something that can settle out, or is this just going to be bitter? And for future batches, as an inexperienced all grain brewer, what should I be watching for to prevent unwanted bitterness? (For fun, here's my label).
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If you're a member of a brew club in your area, see if anyone there has tested their water, is using the same water source, and is willing to give you a copy of those results.

If not, spend a few bucks to get your brewing water tested.

Your water can taste okay to you and still need ion adjustments to make some beer styles. I need to add gypsum and calcium chloride and treat the chlorine with a camden tablet to make a good porter or stout. My friend who is in the same brewing club but has a different water source can make the recipe by simply filtering out the chlorine.

Contact Ward Labs on line. They will send you a kit with a prepaid mailing label and a small container to hold a sample. Instructions are simple. Mail the sample back to them and get the results online in a few days.
As long as your brewing water doesn't change, you only need to do this one time. Then you eliminate the guesswork and one of the variables about why the beer wasn't what you wanted.
 
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