Base Malt comparison project

[Sunfire96]

Cracker and Nut are not far apart to my nose. Depends on the nut type though.

I would say it reminded me most of Oyster crackers (the kind that come with clam chowder) and a little bit like saltines without the salt.

 

[Sunfire96]

The Maris Otter batch is a more pleasant beer to drink. I think that's partly due to a higher FG (1.012 vs 1.009). I got way better extraction with the MO vs the pale ale malt, so the OG was higher in the MO batch.

There's definitely some more depth to the MO batch as well. Hard to put my finger on a better description than that, but I'll keep sampling and collecting data

 

[Blackmuse]

I got a question for you Josh or any of you regularly using Munich brewers...the LHBS had dark Munich and I took home 10 pounds from the regular bin for my smash that is now floculating and looks more red than the deeper gold 10-12 Morey I expected..is that typical or did they mix up their bins and I got some dark in the bag?

I get reddish hues a lot! Dark Munich is what I use for munich malt and if you use it as a majority of your bill and have a heavy boil - you;ll get nice red hues but you may notice that when it hits your glass it'll be more copper (depends on the light and shape of the glass too).

 

[Ward Chillington]

Yeah...I'm guessing I'll get something like that...

<===I

Stay tuned sportsfans!

 

[Blackmuse]

The Maris Otter batch is a more pleasant beer to drink. I think that's partly due to a higher FG (1.012 vs 1.009). I got way better extraction with the MO vs the pale ale malt, so the OG was higher in the MO batch.

There's definitely some more depth to the MO batch as well. Hard to put my finger on a better description than that, but I'll keep sampling and collecting data

Keep good notes or at least one beer on hand - looking forward to hear what you think of MO vs GP! Depth is a good word

 

[NorthWest Small Batch Brewing]

I love Munich Malt. I tend to use Type II dark Munich from Weyermann. What maltster did you use for each malt? I suppose I should try 2-row sometime... But I typically use - Dark Munich, Vienna, Pilsner and Golden Promise as my base malts. I've tried others (Marris Otter, Irish Pale Ale Malt and several types of Wheat Malts) but first four are my go to base malts. American 2-row or Pale Ale malt is something I have never tried... Not sure why.

Did you use the same yeast and hop for each batch?

I'm curious to see what @Sunfire96 finds!

Different hops but I believe they were all So4 yeast.

 

[Sunfire96]

My SO helped me set up a blind taste test! I correctly identified the unique sample, which confirms that I can detect a difference between Maris Otter and Golden Promise. Pretty exciting stuff! The GP batch was more bitter, and the MO sweeter with more citrus.

 

[Megary]

My SO helped me set up a blind taste test! I correctly identified the unique sample, which confirms that I can detect a difference between Maris Otter and Golden Promise. Pretty exciting stuff! The GP batch was more bitter, and the MO sweeter with more citrus.
View attachment 21521

Interesting that you are detecting a big difference in the hops…the bitterness, citrus. Rhetorical question coming: Can malt really play that kind of significance in the perception of hops?

I don’t doubt your procedures (well maybe I do a little or I wouldn’t ask ), but can you think of any other reason as to why bitterness and the citrus-ness were so different? Which one was brewed first? Maybe the first one brewed has lost some aroma/flavor? I really don’t know, I’m just trying to wrap my head around this.

This really, really intrigues me, so I hope I’m not coming across as a jerk.

 

[Sunfire96]

Interesting that you are detecting a big difference in the hops…the bitterness, citrus. Rhetorical question coming: Can malt really play that kind of significance in the perception of hops?

I don’t doubt your procedures (well maybe I do a little or I wouldn’t ask ), but can you think of any other reason as to why bitterness and the citrus-ness were so different? Which one was brewed first? Maybe the first one brewed has lost some aroma/flavor? I really don’t know, I’m just trying to wrap my head around this.

This really, really intrigues me, so I hope I’m not coming across as a jerk.

It does seem odd, right?

My initial guess is slight differences in when the hops were added? I was maybe late by a minute or two?

The beer that I thought was more bitter had a higher FG than the one I thought was sweet (1.014 vs 1.012), but it's not a huge difference either...

The MO batch (FG 1.012, less bitter) was brewed first, but only by 3 days

That's the fun thing about data, sometimes it is just bewildering

 

[Blackmuse]

My SO helped me set up a blind taste test! I correctly identified the unique sample, which confirms that I can detect a difference between Maris Otter and Golden Promise. Pretty exciting stuff! The GP batch was more bitter, and the MO sweeter with more citrus.
View attachment 21521

Very cool! Which do you think you'll be brewing with again - MO or GP?

 

[Sunfire96]

Very cool! Which do you think you'll be brewing with again - MO or GP?

So far I prefer the MO. But it's always possible that may change as the beers age. I feel like MO has better depth of flavor, so I'm getting more bang for my buck out of one malt

 

[Megary]

It does seem odd, right?

My initial guess is slight differences in when the hops were added? I was maybe late by a minute or two?

The beer that I thought was more bitter had a higher FG than the one I thought was sweet (1.014 vs 1.012), but it's not a huge difference either...

The MO batch (FG 1.012, less bitter) was brewed first, but only by 3 days

That's the fun thing about data, sometimes it is just bewildering

Thanks for the reply. I don’t think your hops timing, the FG, or the brew dates can explain away your clear perception of the finished beers. I’d call those very small procedural differences just noise, complete non-factors.

Mind blown.

 

[Megary]

So far I prefer the MO. But it's always possible that may change as the beers age. I feel like MO has better depth of flavor, so I'm getting more bang for my buck out of one malt

I only ever use MO and GP when I make English Bitters. I have the exact same thoughts about the two malts. I like them both, but I prefer MO because the beer just seems more rounded out and complete, fuller, richer, more flavorful, whatever. Not by a lot, but clearly a difference.

Can’t say I’ve noticed a difference in the hop profile, but I doubt I was looking for one.

Good stuff.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Thanks for the reply. I don’t think your hops timing, the FG, or the brew dates can explain away your clear perception of the finished beers. I’d call those very small procedural differences just noise, complete non-factors.

Mind blown.

The Bru Lab has introduced me to the potential of yeast releasing free and bound thiols I'm sure I heard in one Bru lab podcast that there can be these Thiol Compounds in malt.
Maybe this isn't what's going on here but that's where my mind went when you asked that question.

Very cool Sunfire96 maybe the MO is more malty therefore giving the Golden Promise base beer a more percieved bitterness....

This is so cool what your doing.

 

[Sunfire96]

Very cool Sunfire96 maybe the MO is more malty therefore giving the Golden Promise base beer a more percieved bitterness....

I'm VERY curious what will happen in the Vienna vs light Munich vs dark Munich run

That won't be for a few more weeks tho, up next is pilsner vs 2 row and then I'm brewing some "normal beers" for fun and to share with friends

 

[GFHomebrew]

I'm VERY curious what will happen in the Vienna vs light Munich vs dark Munich run

That won't be for a few more weeks tho, up next is pilsner vs 2 row and then I'm brewing some "normal beers" for fun and to share with friends

Yeah for sure I hear of Cherry being a flavour descriptor from an all Munich Malt beer.
I'm expecting Toasty biscuity from Vienna.

Personally I'm not too stressed on brew day if recipe calls for Munich and I've only got Vienna.

Is there a difference hmmm I guess we're gunna find out.

 

[Blackmuse]

@Sunfire96 This is all very interesting! I never did a side by side comparison of GP and MO but have used them both at different times and came up preferring GP - though I love malty malts! lol So, I feel obliged to try MO again!

As for Vienna and Munich (I only ever use Munich II (Dark Munich) in the Munich family and always find a pronounced difference between the two - I love both!

I'm actually brewing a Munich Dunkel tomorrow afternoon - all Dark Munich malt - and a double decoction! My induction burner came in and I scored a 3 gallon and a 4 gallon induction ready pot from Bed Bath and Beyond! Sale - 25 bucks each and nice quality! I can't wait - but also am slightly dreading the complications of decoction - however, I've been dying to try it and see the result so... Here goes nothing! (Hoping this decoction business, and MJ M20 yeast will lead to rekindling a desire to brew Hefeweizen!)

 

[Sunfire96]

The pilsner batch is ready to drink and it's light and quaffable and tasty. I would love to do this again with a citra dry hop addition, just a small amount to make this beer pop. No sulfur notes despite the 30 minute boil. It did take about 80 minutes to fully convert instead of my normal 60 minute mash. Can't wait to see how the 2 row batch stacks up in comparison.

I think the Golden Promise is officially my least favorite so far. There's almost a minerally hardness to it. I would blame human error in adding the gypsum, but none of these beers have gypsum added. Maybe Golden Promise from other maltsters has different qualities (this was from Crisp)

 

[Blackmuse]

I think the Golden Promise is officially my least favorite so far. There's almost a minerally hardness to it. I would blame human error in adding the gypsum, but none of these beers have gypsum added. Maybe Golden Promise from other maltsters has different qualities (this was from Crisp)

I use Simpsons and totally would not describe it as you have here! lol Maybe it is a maltster thing but it could also be as you stated - simply - your least favorite

I prefer it over MO but have never done a side by side. - Maybe it is time for me to do so!

 

[Blackmuse]

The pilsner batch is ready to drink and it's light and quaffable and tasty. I would love to do this again with a citra dry hop addition, just a small amount to make this beer pop.

This sounds delicious