Acceptable fix?

[Megary]

Check this latest exbeeriment from brulosophy out 18% blue corn vs all barley beer
https://brulosophy.com/2023/03/06/e...blue-corn-has-on-an-international-pale-lager/

Pretty interesting, thanks for that. Makes you wonder what the point is to Corn Malt after all. My guess is they just didn't use enough. Maybe at 25-30% the Corn Malt might make a difference.

Like the first commenter, I also would like to see a comparison between Corn Malt and Flaked Maize. I have convinced myself that at the right proportions (20-25%), I do get a sweetness from Flaked Maize. Not sure if a Corn Malt would bring that.

And to confuse matters more, there are quite a few different types of Corn Malt made from different varieties of corn and quite a few different maltsters producing it. I have plans on using a Munich style Corn Malt form a local craft malthouse in the near future.

 

[GDubs]

Update…
After 11.5 days in the fermenter I decided to try a cold crash for the first time. Im using a CO2 filled mylar balloon to create a closed system…. My beer fridge is also my lobster bait fridge so i figured it was better to be safe than sorry.
I pulled a quick sample to check the gravity while switching to my balloon rigged bung…. 1.010, which should put me at 4.73 ABV. Considering I was shooting for a sub-5 ABV and missed my starting gravity, I am more than happy. Im not a great judge of warm, flat beers but I think I nailed it! It is a nice golden color (my extract kits have all come out fairly dark), and my initial taste was light without being boring…just what I was looking for.
I will check the clarity tomorrow after work, and I may try adding a little gelatin and giving it another 24 hours before bottling…which just so happens to fall right when my son will be home from school, so we can spend some quality time together.
Stay tuned…

 

[Craigerrr]

Update…
After 11.5 days in the fermenter I decided to try a cold crash for the first time. Im using a CO2 filled mylar balloon to create a closed system…. My beer fridge is also my lobster bait fridge so i figured it was better to be safe than sorry.
I pulled a quick sample to check the gravity while switching to my balloon rigged bung…. 1.010, which should put me at 4.73 ABV. Considering I was shooting for a sub-5 ABV and missed my starting gravity, I am more than happy. Im not a great judge of warm, flat beers but I think I nailed it! It is a nice golden color (my extract kits have all come out fairly dark), and my initial taste was light without being boring…just what I was looking for.
I will check the clarity tomorrow after work, and I may try adding a little gelatin and giving it another 24 hours before bottling…which just so happens to fall right when my son will be home from school, so we can spend some quality time together.
Stay tuned…

I would leave it cold crashing for a few days. The clarifying effect will be minimal after just one day. Add gelatin to the fermenter after one day then leave it for two more, trust me, I'm a doctor!

 

[Donoroto]

I would leave it cold crashing for a few days. The clarifying effect will be minimal after just one day. Add gelatin to the fermenter after one day then leave it for two more, trust me, I'm a doctor!

Or at least he plays one on TV...

 

[Blackmuse]

Update…
After 11.5 days in the fermenter I decided to try a cold crash for the first time. Im using a CO2 filled mylar balloon to create a closed system…. My beer fridge is also my lobster bait fridge so i figured it was better to be safe than sorry.
I pulled a quick sample to check the gravity while switching to my balloon rigged bung…. 1.010, which should put me at 4.73 ABV. Considering I was shooting for a sub-5 ABV and missed my starting gravity, I am more than happy. Im not a great judge of warm, flat beers but I think I nailed it! It is a nice golden color (my extract kits have all come out fairly dark), and my initial taste was light without being boring…just what I was looking for.
I will check the clarity tomorrow after work, and I may try adding a little gelatin and giving it another 24 hours before bottling…which just so happens to fall right when my son will be home from school, so we can spend some quality time together.
Stay tuned…

Any update on how the final product came out? Happy mistake?

 

[GDubs]

*WRAP UP*
As a refresher… I was trying to brew an easy drinking Cream Ale for my Coors/Bud light drinking friends. This was my first attempt at creating my own recipe and I missed my starting gravity (didnt fully understand how the recipe calculator worked nor how flaked corn functioned as a fermentable). I ended up needing to rely on regular old sugar (1.5c) to correct my miscalculations…. From there i tried a cold crash with gelatin and carbonation drops, each for the first time as well.

Bottling Day… flat, warm “beer”, slight natural carbonation.... high hopes
Bottlng Day +7 (then chilled)… cold, flat, boozy (for 4.75%) and sweet… yuck.
Bottling Day +14 (then chilled)… cold, effervescent, sweet, still boozy… might not have to pour out the other 48
Bottling Day + 21. Definately carbonated, still a little sweet and boozy.... drinkable. Time for some feedback
Light beer drinker #1 - "Good, a little sweet but good".
Light beer drinker #2 - "I could drink this. Its better than the crap they serve at ~~~~"
Light beer drinker #3, #4, #5 - Some version of "Not bad"
Wife #1 (my wife) - "ew"...
Wife #2 after having a sip of her husbands - "I like it! Can I have one of my own?"
Everyone finished their glass, however nobody went back for seconds (except me, it was all I brought). Out of all the feedback I received, #1 makes his own wine and would tell me his real opinion... #2 has ZERO filter so..... "sweet and drinkable" seems to be the public opinion,

As a style, I would not brew a cream ale for myself so I think it has been a little difficult for me to make an honest assessment of the beer itself. I did however draw some conclusions and learned a couple things through this brew experience....

In the end, I suspect the "booziness" was the result of the alcohol having very little to hide behind.... Pilsen LME, and a combined 1.5 lbs of steeped crystal 10 and flaked corn didnt provide enough body to cover for the 1.5 cups of simple sugar needed to correct my starting gravity. The perceived sweetness has decreased with time in the bottle, so it may be related to the carbonation drops requiring a bit more time. However, I also think the flaked corn probably added some sweetness and the beer as a whole was under-hopped (12 IBUs - Saaz). With a little more bitterness, I think I could balance some of the sweetness without being too bitter for the "light beer" crowd. I dont think I would go through the trouble of a cold crash again... not unless the style really needed it.

I still want to brew something for the light beer drinkers. So I will go ahead and brew another cream ale before the summer gets here. Other than making sure I have enough LME on hand to make my adjustments, I think I am just going to drop the flaked corn and shoot for slightly higher IBUs.

Thanks for the guidance along the way.... Cheers!!

The finished product "Lifeboat Cream Ale".... ("Lifeboat" because its for the women and children)

 

[Megary]

*WRAP UP*
As a refresher… I was trying to brew an easy drinking Cream Ale for my Coors/Bud light drinking friends. This was my first attempt at creating my own recipe and I missed my starting gravity (didnt fully understand how the recipe calculator worked nor how flaked corn functioned as a fermentable). I ended up needing to rely on regular old sugar (1.5c) to correct my miscalculations…. From there i tried a cold crash with gelatin and carbonation drops, each for the first time as well.

Bottling Day… flat, warm “beer”, slight natural carbonation.... high hopes
Bottlng Day +7 (then chilled)… cold, flat, boozy (for 4.75%) and sweet… yuck.
Bottling Day +14 (then chilled)… cold, effervescent, sweet, still boozy… might not have to pour out the other 48
Bottling Day + 21. Definately carbonated, still a little sweet and boozy.... drinkable. Time for some feedback
Light beer drinker #1 - "Good, a little sweet but good".
Light beer drinker #2 - "I could drink this. Its better than the crap they serve at ~~~~"
Light beer drinker #3, #4, #5 - Some version of "Not bad"
Wife #1 after having a sip of her husbands - "I like it! Can I have one of my own?"
Everyone finished their glass, however nobody went back for seconds (except me, it was all I brought). Out of all the feedback I received, #1 makes his own wine and would tell me his real opinion... #2 has ZERO filter so..... "sweet and drinkable" seems to be the public opinion,

As a style, I would not brew a cream ale for myself so I think it has been a little difficult for me to make an honest assessment of the beer itself. I did however draw some conclusions and learned a couple things through this brew experience....

In the end, I suspect the "booziness" was the result of the alcohol having very little to hide behind.... Pilsen LME, and a combined 1.5 lbs of steeped crystal 10 and flaked corn didnt provide enough body to cover for the 1.5 cups of simple sugar needed to correct my starting gravity. The perceived sweetness has decreased with time in the bottle, so it may be related to the carbonation drops requiring a bit more time. However, I also think the flaked corn probably added some sweetness and the beer as a whole was under-hopped (12 IBUs - Saaz). With a little more bitterness, I think I could balance some of the sweetness without being too bitter for the "light beer" crowd. I dont think I would go through the trouble of a cold crash again... not unless the style really needed it.

I still want to brew something for the light beer drinkers. So I will go ahead and brew another cream ale before the summer gets here. Other than making sure I have enough LME on hand to make my adjustments, I think I am just going to drop the flaked corn and shoot for slightly higher IBUs.

Thanks for the guidance along the way.... Cheers!!

The finished product "Lifeboat Cream Ale".... ("Lifeboat" because its for the women and children)
View attachment 24920

I realize it's only a name, but your picture is a bit too dark for a "Cream Ale". Personally, I would drop the Crystal and keep the flaked corn.

And I'm not sure what yeast you're using, but for a Cream Ale, I think it's important to get a very clean, lager-like fermentation. Yeast is the key.

Bottle carbonate for a few weeks and then let them sit cold for at least 3 more to clear out.

Good luck!

 

[GDubs]

I realize it's only a name, but your picture is a bit too dark for a "Cream Ale". Personally, I would drop the Crystal and keep the flaked corn.

And I'm not sure what yeast you're using, but for a Cream Ale, I think it's important to get a very clean, lager-like fermentation. Yeast is the key.

Bottle carbonate for a few weeks and then let them sit cold for at least 3 more to clear out.

Good luck!

I agree, I was hoping for something lighter in color.
At this stage of the game I am still extract brewing and limited to partial boils.... everything I make comes out darker than expected despite my efforts to make sure that I dont burn the sugars. I have read that this is fairly typical. The next batch I am going to maximize the water in my boil kettle and do a late addition for half the LME. I would be super grateful for any advice on how to avoid dark-er beer in the future.
Flaked corn was discussed earlier in the thread and it was the consensus that it requires a mash with base malts to convert the sugars and as such it wouldnt do much when steeped for an extract brew. I figured I would keep the Crystal 10 to add a little backbone.
I used White Labs Cream Ale yeast

 

[Sandy Feet]

My extracts were all drinkable, but all were missing something.
Get your process down and see how other things come out. I noticed a massive improvement on my first beer once I went grain. It wasn't perfect, but it was much, much better than the extract ones. Look on You Tube at some of the Brew in a Bag set-ups if you still want simple and something that tastes better.
It also helped when I went outside with the big kettle. The house didn't smell like a brewery for three days LOL.
It has taken me a lot of patience and a lot of conversations to learn some things here and there. Once the light comes on about certain things, and the beer starts getting good, it becomes fun.

 

[Megary]

I agree, I was hoping for something lighter in color.
At this stage of the game I am still extract brewing and limited to partial boils.... everything I make comes out darker than expected despite my efforts to make sure that I dont burn the sugars. I have read that this is fairly typical. The next batch I am going to maximize the water in my boil kettle and do a late addition for half the LME. I would be super grateful for any advice on how to avoid dark-er beer in the future.
Flaked corn was discussed earlier in the thread and it was the consensus that it requires a mash with base malts to convert the sugars and as such it wouldnt do much when steeped for an extract brew. I figured I would keep the Crystal 10 to add a little backbone.
I used White Labs Cream Ale yeast

Great yeast choice.

Have you considered Dry extract instead of liquid? I haven't used LME in a long time, but I understand the problem with beers appearing darker than hoped for. I think you can get lighter with DME.

I would still use the Flaked Corn and maybe consider an amylase enzyme to convert the starches while steeping. I've never tried this myself, but I want to believe it would work. Or maybe just buy it?
Corn Syrup (northernbrewer.com)

 

[The Brew Mentor]

But the lightest DME you can(Pilsen).
If you buy flaked maize, buy an equal amount of 2 row and steep them together for at least 60 minutes. Do your best to keep the steeping temperature in the 148-158° range. Reduce your steeping amount to not more than 1.5qts./ pound.
Heat the other water separately.
And I'd loose the crystal malt. If you want it, then make a Blonde instead.
I like your yeast choice, but a clean Cali ale yeast works as well.
Good luck,
Brian

 

[Zambi]

I have no idea what a cream ale looks and tastes like, but I do like the look of your beer.
Makes me thirsty on my non drinking day
Can't help with any exttract brewing either. Never done one. I went straight to biab.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I have no idea what a cream ale looks and tastes like, but I do like the look of your beer.
Makes me thirsty on my non drinking day
Can't help with any exttract brewing either. Never done one. I went straight to biab.

I have tried them at the breweries. I am not a real big fan because they tend to be too sweet for me. Some of the places around here flavor them. Then, they really get sweet.
If I want a nice, light beer, it will be a Kolsch, a Pale Ale, or a European style lager. Well, unless I do another Pre Pro.
I do not like American lagers in general, but the traditional ones I do.
Going grain, you can make a nice, simple, tasty beer with 2 row, 1/2 lb Crystal 40, Cascade, and S-05 with the optional 1/2lb White Wheat for head retention. If you go below 40 IBUs with the Cascade, it will be very drinkable.

 

[Megary]

I have tried them at the breweries. I am not a real big fan because they tend to be too sweet for me. Some of the places around here flavor them. Then, they really get sweet.
If I want a nice, light beer, it will be a Kolsch, a Pale Ale, or a European style lager. Well, unless I do another Pre Pro.
I do not like American lagers in general, but the traditional ones I do.
Going grain, you can make a nice, simple, tasty beer with 2 row, 1/2 lb Crystal 40, Cascade, and S-05 with the optional 1/2lb White Wheat for head retention. If you go below 40 IBUs with the Cascade, it will be very drinkable.

My Opinion ---->
If you are drinking Cream Ales that are too sweet, then my guess is you really aren't drinking Cream Ales. They should be light, dry, crisp and well-attenuated. You might get a slight "corn" sweetness, but a well-made Cream Ale should finish dry and simply be a more interesting and flavorful version of your standard American Lager.

 

[Sandy Feet]

That could be it, opinion noted.
In your opinion, do you think a real one goes more toward a Pre Pro with the corn - maybe a little higher alcohol, more mouthfeel, and hoppier? Or is it a plain jane light lager with a twist?

 

[Megary]

That could be it, opinion noted.
In your opinion, do you think a real one goes more toward a Pre Pro with the corn - maybe a little higher alcohol, more mouthfeel, and hoppier? Or is it a plain jane light lager with a twist?

More Lager-ish with a somewhat softer "ale" character. Closer to a Kolsch than a Blonde Ale, if that makes any sense. Definitely not high ABV and definitely not hoppy. Low bitterness, maybe a little noble hop aroma, or not. I think they are best when that corn flavor comes through a little bit.
Again, that's my opinion. I was always a Genny Cream fan, and that beer is sort of the baseline to me.

 

[Craigerrr]

Just an observation from someone that isn't really a lover of the style.
Wife #1 and Wife #2 both there for the tasting! Cool!

 

[Sandy Feet]

More Lager-ish with a somewhat softer "ale" character. Closer to a Kolsch than a Blonde Ale, if that makes any sense. Definitely not high ABV and definitely not hoppy. Low bitterness, maybe a little noble hop aroma, or not. I think they are best when that corn flavor comes through a little bit.
Again, that's my opinion. I was always a Genny Cream fan, and that beer is sort of the baseline to me.

Not a lot of Genny Cream sold down here. Had I not had a friend or two from NY and some relatives up north, I would never have heard of it. My understanding is they have quite a following Upstate in New York.

 

[Donoroto]

Not a lot of Genny Cream sold down here. Had I not had a friend or two from NY and some relatives up north, I would never have heard of it. My understanding is they have quite a following Upstate in New York.

Yes they do. It is my standard for the style.

 

[WesBrew]

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