Acceptable fix?

HighVoltageMan! said:
Replace this with the flake corn with dextrose or rice solids. The corn could also be replaced with table sugar, the only sugar available that could give you anything outside of alcohol and cO2 is rice solids. Both dextrose (corn sugar) and table sugar will ferment nearly completely and the yeast will produce mostly alcohol and cO2. The extra alcohol will dry the beer out and lighten it's body. Not 100% sure about rice solids, but I believe they have more complex sugars. Maybe someone who knows more about this can chime in.

Flaked corn, rice, wheat need to be mashed as others have stated. The difference between adding the sugar directly into the boil and mashing it is the sugar type that ends up in the beer. Adjuncts added to the mash will produce mostly maltose sugar. This is often misunderstood by brewers, believing that adding adjuncts will produce simpler sugars than barley malt. The mashing process will produce maltose from gelatinized starch regardless of it's source because of the amylase enzyme . Some simpler sugars are produced, but it's not nearly as fermentable as dextrose or table sugar.

Bottom line is that adding sugars directly to the boil is the closest thing you can get to mashing adjuncts, but the mashed adjuncts will not attenuate as much as dextrose and table sugar.
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It's my limited understanding that mashing corn will also produce glucose a simple sugar that will be 100% attenuated by the yeast.

Hence why our distilling brethren like to make corn liquor with it:D.

The rice syrup I've been using ferments out 100% as well I believe that's mostly glucose as well.
 
Trialben said:
It's my limited understanding that mashing corn will also produce glucose a simple sugar that will be 100% attenuated by the yeast.

Hence why our distilling brethren like to make corn liquor with it:D.

The rice syrup I've been using ferments out 100% as well I believe that's mostly glucose as well.
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Ok just a bit confused, flaked corn won't convert as an ajunct? How is it converted for corn whiskey?
 
west1m said:
Ok just a bit confused, flaked corn won't convert as an ajunct? How is it converted for corn whiskey?
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Enzymes me old mate:)

Most hb stores will sell what they call "distilling enzymes"
High temperature stable Alpha Amylase.

Stinky linky to one such product ive been oogleing
https://www.australianhomebrewing.com.au/still-spirits-distillers-enzyme-alpha-amylase-12gr

So @Josh Hughes mates :p will go grab a bunch of corn malt it dry it out and then mash em and throw some distilling enzymes in there to convert the starches.

BOIL FERMENT THEN DISTILL.

just my basic understanding of it.
 
Trialben said:
It's my limited understanding that mashing corn will also produce glucose a simple sugar that will be 100% attenuated by the yeast.

Hence why our distilling brethren like to make corn liquor with it:D.

The rice syrup I've been using ferments out 100% as well I believe that's mostly glucose as well.
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I don’t believe so. It’s the enzyme that makes the sugars. Amylase produces mostly maltose, there is some glucose and sucrose. That’s why Belgian beer use simple sugar. If they mash an adjunct like corn, they can’t get the attenuation they're looking for.

I hope I’m not wrong and am misleading anyone, but that’s how I understand it.
 
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HighVoltageMan! said:
I don’t believe so. It’s the enzyme that makes the sugars. Amylase produces mostly maltose, there is some glucose and sucrose. That’s why Belgian beer use simple sugar. If they mash an adjunct like corn, they can’t get the attenuation their looking for.

I hope I’m not wrong and am misleading anyone, but that’s how I understanding it.
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Edit so looks like I'm the one that's misleading every one. Somewhere in my head I musta linked glucose and corn sugar together and tumbled around and got confused thinking corn would produce high amounts of glucose simple sugars as a result so take everything I've written and links provided below with a grain of salt:rolleyes:.

Yeah I'm not 100% sure just looking at it from what I've gleaned from my GF brewing most of these grains ate compromised mainly glucose from the mash and most attenuate to near 1.000 making for a lite body that hard to overcome.
Except by the use of more endogenous Enzymes like Ondea pro which I've been looking into.

Don't wanna side track this thread to far though.

Just my understanding from what I've learned about corn

This bloke puts it more clearly on the glucose component in regards to mashing some of these grains https://open.spotify.com/episode/4rb7vBSu7qUPF8K1oGbKqn?si=qH36NCEIT-Ofa_mjgv3tfQ

On malted corn
Gladfields Malted Maize is made from New Zealand grew field corn. Maize Malt allows brewers and distillers to use it directly in the mash, without an additional gelatinisation step. A great malt to use to produce American Light lagers and pilsners to add fermentables with little colour and a unique flavour. It can also be used as the base for a corn whiskey (bourbon).

Maize malt adds mild, less malty flavour to beers and less body. It also provides a drier and crisper beer. Maize Malt should be crushed along with other malts. No need to adjust the mill, cook it, step mash or mill it separately. We recommend adding Rice or Oat Hulls to recipes using more than 10% of Maize Malt to avoid a stuck mash.

To get the most out of the maize malt be sure to keep the grist percentage at under 30% as the corn will lack the same enzyme potential as barley.

We recommend milling the Maize malt along with the other malts. Optimum mill gap is 1.45 mm

EBC: 2.5
Base / Non Barley Specialty
Diastatic Power: 0° Lintner
 
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GDubs said:
Im here to learn, i will indeed continue down that rabbit hole tomorrow.
Thanks for your comments
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Attaboy! Embrace the Wabbit Warren!

Key words there...mashed v steeped being different processes as pointed out in the posts above, yield different outcomes . I'm an all grain brewer and like @The Brew Mentor , my cream ale mashes out just fine too. In fact, it's the adjuncts like corn and rice that make your average North American Industrial Lager the light and appealing beer that it is to so many folks.

By the way, is this still in the fermenter or are your yeast done so you have an idea if you're off the numbers or not? Either way, you're gonna have beer so RDWHAHB!
 
Trialben said:
Maize Malt allows brewers and distillers to use it directly in the mash, without an additional gelatinisation step
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I never knew this existed! I'm gonna get enough to do an American lager and see how it does.

Thanks, Ben!
 
Ward Chillington said:
By the way, is this still in the fermenter or are your yeast done so you have an idea if you're off the numbers or not? Either way, you're gonna have beer so RDWHAHB!
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I am on day four of the fermenter and it appears to be chugging along well. I will check the gravity in a couple days, crash for a week, then bottle.... should be ready by the last week of March.
This was intended to be a learning brew right from the start and I will be trying some clarifying for the first time too
 
Let it stay in the fermenter for 14 days. Do NOT crash before you bottle. Bottle and let it sit at fermentation temperature for another 10-14 days THEN crash. You need active yeast in the bottle or else the beer will be flat. That is how it carbonates - you use a little more sugar in the bottling bucket for the active yeast to create CO2. Bottle too soon, and you blow up the bottles. Bottle with too much space, you have flat beer. Bottle with not enough space you blow things up or end up with highly carbonated beer.
Beer takes patience, especially when you bottle. If you decide to force carbonate, you can get it done earlier, but making beer and bottling is close to four weeks. It actually will taste a little better a couple of weeks later if your brewing process is sound.
You will really notice how better it gets with a couple of more weeks once you go all grain.
 
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Sandy Feet said:
Do NOT crash before you bottle. Bottle and let it sit at fermentation temperature for another 10-14 days THEN crash. You need active yeast in the bottle or else the beer will be flat.
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Everything I have read has indicated that there will be more than enough yeast in suspension after cold crashing to bottle condition. Is this bad info?
I was planning to check the gravity to verify the fermentation stopped (+/- day 7), then move my carboy to the beer fridge for another week , maybe add some gelatin and bottle right around day 14.... +2 weeks bottle conditioning puts me right at 1 month.
 
GDubs said:
Everything I have read has indicated that there will be more than enough yeast in suspension after cold crashing to bottle condition. Is this bad info?
I was planning to check the gravity to verify the fermentation stopped (+/- day 7), then move my carboy to the beer fridge for another week , maybe add some gelatin and bottle right around day 14.... +2 weeks bottle conditioning puts me right at 1 month.
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The info you read is correct. I bottle and my process is similar to what you propose. 2.75 weeks in the fermenter and 1-2 days cold crash, then bottle. I don't take gravity readings to determine when fermentation is complete (because I don't like opening the fermentor multiple times to take multiple readings). Because of that, I never go less than 2.5 weeks in the fermenter because I want to be sure fermentation is complete. The only time I add yeast at bottling is for a heavy beer (e.g. Wee Heavy or W00t Stout) where it has bulk aged in secondary for 6-9 months.
 
HighVoltageMan! said:
I never knew this existed! I'm gonna get enough to do an American lager and see how it does.

Thanks, Ben!
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Misadventures through hombrewing:D.

See they recommend 30% of grist because of low enzymatic activity ;).

Been looking at getting some of this for my GF brewing but using some Enzymes for conversion.

I think I might be able to arive at an alternative GF pilsner style beer with a combination of rice corn and sorgum malt.
 
GDubs said:
I am on day four of the fermenter and it appears to be chugging along well. I will check the gravity in a couple days, crash for a week, then bottle.... should be ready by the last week of March.
This was intended to be a learning brew right from the start and I will be trying some clarifying for the first time too
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Cool..keep us in the loop. Do you bottle or keg?
 
I have always cold crashed after carbonation is complete. 14 days has always been long enough for me in the fermentor with a normal gravity beer. I do not like to open fermenters.
 
I think you can do both.
It's actually quite difficult to kill all yeast ;)

I don't cold crash as initially I dindn't have the option and the beers came out fine.
Plus I got a bit scared of the risk of air (oxygen) being sucked in by cold crashing
 
Zambezi Special said:
I think you can do both.
It's actually quite difficult to kill all yeast ;)

I don't cold crash as initially I dindn't have the option and the beers came out fine.
Plus I got a bit scared of the risk of air (oxygen) being sucked in by cold crashing
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I forgot about that. One of the things I was told when brewing a lager was to back the temperature down 5 degrees or so at a time. That way the sanitizer from the airlock doesn't get sucked back into the fermenter.
Love to hear from the OP about the adventure once the first beer is popped.
I think if you are new to brewing, the John Palmer book - How to Brew is a very good read. He has a couple of chapters that are summaries and then gives much more in-depth information later in the book. That book can give you a bunch of information that is hard to describe on a forum.
These guys and ladies on the forum have helped me a several times when I have had specific questions. They appear to be a much friendlier crowd than some of the other forums. We can have disagreements, but they are usually respectful ones.
One of the things that drove me nuts from the extracts was that I could not get my beer to ferment below 1.020. I tried all kinds of ideas until I realized it wasn't me. It was the extracts. That is one reason why I still overpitch. It became a habit with the extracts trying to learn something.
 
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