SMaSH with M.O. and Amarillo

[okoncentrerad]

...will that be a good idea? I'm going to try make it simple on my next brew, an IPA with Maris Otter + amarillo, and either US-05 or BRY-97.

Been googling some and I don't see anyone saying they hate that combo at least. What would a good hop schedule be? I want some dry hopping but I don't really got the feeling yet for how/when amounts of hops impacts the final product. Don't want a hop bomb, but a easy drinkable beer with a decent amount of citrusy/grapefruity flavors and some nice bitterness to it.

 

[jmcnamara]

This was my first smash / BIAB beer. Turned out really well I thought.
I'd have to look up how I hopped it, but I believe everything was 45 mins or less

 

[thehaze]

US-05 is a great choice for yeast. BRY-97 is the dry equivalent of Wyeast 1272. I have read that although BRY-97 makes good beer, it does mute the bitterness a bit and take away some of the hop character.

I would also consider Nottingham for the yeast. Fast, agressive, clean fermenter, makes very dry beer and allows the hops to shine.

For your Smash IPA, I would shoot for 40-45 IBUs, 5.5% and a more complicated/intricate hop schedule.

I do lots of late additions in the last 20 minutes or so in the boil. I no longer add a classic bittering charge at 60 minutes for my IPAs and pale ales. I also do whirlpools, so I recommend to cool the wort down fast to around 60-70C / 140-160F, once you finished the boil and then add a pretty big hop charge. Steep for 15-30 minutes and resuspend the hops every 5-10 minutes or so by doing a little whirlpool in the kettle.

Dry hop for 3-5 days for maximum flavour.

I did not provided any hops qty, as this is really subjective.

My latest All Amarillo Pale ale with no dry hopping had 200 gr / 7 oz hops and it was good. I think next time I can brew it better, by adding dry hopping it.

 

[jeffpn]

I did not provided any hops qty, as this is really subjective.

Actually, it’s all subjective

 

[okoncentrerad]

Sounds like an interesting brew, however I convinced myself I will keep it simple this time. I've been experimenting too much on my brews and I'm still a beginner...I want a brew day without worries and questions to the forum But I think the idea of whirlpooling is interesting, for another time!

It's all subjective of course, how much and when, but I do trust you guys know much more than me what rocks and what's not

 

[J A]

I like Cascade better for the flavors you describe, but Amarillo is a very nice hop. I get a dense floral aroma/flavor from it that gets in the way of the citrus. Definitely brew it up! You can do the same brew with a different hop and really experience the differences in the hop contribution.

 

[okoncentrerad]

Yes Cascade is my second choice for hops since I got some bags of it at home. Wasn't my first choice though because I've been using cascade in all my IPAs so far (only 3 but....) and not been using amarillo much. I might reconcider though, perhaps time to get rid of the older hops.

 

[Mase]

Yes Cascade is my second choice for hops since I got some bags of it at home. Wasn't my first choice though because I've been using cascade in all my IPAs so far (only 3 but....) and not been using amarillo much. I might reconcider though, perhaps time to get rid of the older hops.

Which begs a question, can older hops be used for bittering (60 minute mark). I have an accumulation of a years worth of left over hops and not trusting that I’d get their true potential (aroma/flavor) unless fairly fresh.

 

[okoncentrerad]

These hops (the cascade) are still vacuum-packed/not opened. I'm not sure what date is on them though, but "best before" says Aug/2019.

Could someone please explain the reasons for not using the "standard" bittering additions at 60 min? What's the reason for it, the pros and cons?

 

[Nosybear]

These hops (the cascade) are still vacuum-packed/not opened. I'm not sure what date is on them though, but "best before" says Aug/2019.

Could someone please explain the reasons for not using the "standard" bittering additions at 60 min? What's the reason for it, the pros and cons?

Mase: Do a "tea" in a small quantity of wort - you can mix it up from extract - and see if you get any vegetal or cheesy flavors from those old hops. If you don't, you can use them!
60-minute hops is a preference thing. I've used them, I've used FWH, I've varied the time. FWH makes a different style of bitter, hard to describe, bitter but smoother. 60-minute, unless you have a reason not to, is the standard addition, likely because it's where utilization and energy use cross (any longer would cost more in energy than the gain in hop utilization would pay back in decreased hop cost). For us, putting another few grams of hops in to make a shorter boil doesn't matter, to the big guys it does. As far as the date, as long as they're sealed, they should still be good. The hops off-flavors come from oxidation, so no oxygen, no oxidation.

 

[Mase]

Mase: Do a "tea" in a small quantity of wort - you can mix it up from extract - and see if you get any vegetal or cheesy flavors from those old hops. If you don't, you can use them!
60-minute hops is a preference thing. I've used them, I've used FWH, I've varied the time. FWH makes a different style of bitter, hard to describe, bitter but smoother. 60-minute, unless you have a reason not to, is the standard addition, likely because it's where utilization and energy use cross (any longer would cost more in energy than the gain in hop utilization would pay back in decreased hop cost). For us, putting another few grams of hops in to make a shorter boil doesn't matter, to the big guys it does. As far as the date, as long as they're sealed, they should still be good. The hops off-flavors come from oxidation, so no oxygen, no oxidation.

I like the “tea” idea to detect off flavors and will be giving that a try for sure. Although we “burp” as much air/oxygen out of the zip-lock baggies as we can and store them in the freezer, I doubt that it’s near as effective as a vacuum sealer can do (That’s for another purchase).

 

[GFHomebrew]

ive been using First Wort Hopping for my last 3 batches of lagers it purported that you get a smoother bitterness from it because it starts out at mash temp so simmilar to whirlpool hop except you then boil it for your preffered boil time. the catch is aromatic oils are supposed to be kept in the wort and not evaporated off . i like it anyhow. 60 min bittering give bitterness without flavour /aroma hence the later in the boil you add your hops the more likely youll keep the aroma/flavours of them hops and less bitterness. the longer you boil the hop the more bitterness utilization from it. so if you want a low bittered highly hopped IPA you can load up on your whirlpool hops flame out hops ect and even boil for less time and incorporate like a 40min FWH addition. clear as mud eh.

 

[thehaze]

By not adding a bittering charge at 60 minutes, I can actually add a bit more hops in the whirlpool at a lower temp., which does not add that much bitterness, as it would otherwise when boiling the hops.

The bitterness coming from later additions is also very smooth. I like it. Some do not, as they might feel there is no heavy/real hop bite to it. I also like using aroma hops with lower AA, like Amarillo, Motueka, Cascade, Mandarina Bavaria, etc. in the boil to get a even smoother bitterness and rounder flavours.

If we are talking a hoppy/aromatic brew, then I would always start adding hops in the last 20-30 minutes, at short time intervals with a big whirlpool at low temp, where usually you can add up to 6-8-10 oz of hops for 5-6 gallons.