To Rack or Not To Rack

I_playdrums

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Recently, I have been conditioning in the same fermenter as primary has been taking place. I use 7g Fast Ferments. The harvest "ball" allows the removal of initial trub, and secondly the yeast I want to harvest. After yeast removal, I leave the valve closed, and allow the slower floccing yeast to continue working, and scrub out remaining diacetyl and acetaldehyde. Also, reducing O2 exposure. Always looking to improve, any thoughts about said techniques appreciated.
 
With the Fast Ferment there is no need to rack until it is time to bottle or keg, dropping the trub and yeast serves the same function as racking.
 
if you really want to get picky about oxygen you would add co2 into the top of the Fast Ferment as your opening the valve, thats really the only drawback those set ups as your emptying anything your pulling in air in the head space, if left long enough it could impact the beer but in most cases it wont especially if you keg just vent the keg after filling
 
if you really want to get picky about oxygen you would add co2 into the top of the Fast Ferment as your opening the valve, thats really the only drawback those set ups as your emptying anything your pulling in air in the head space, if left long enough it could impact the beer but in most cases it wont especially if you keg just vent the keg after filling

I have been watching countless vids on Conical fermenters, while debating if I should invest in one, and noticed the input of Oxygen during trub/yeast removal is biggest complaint. Is this something that would affect a 2-3 fermenting beer? Or is the amount of air allowed in comparable to someone using a bucket and taking the lid off 3 times during fermentation to check progress, i.e. gravity readings. ? I would think more air is exchanged in a bucket lid removal than is in a small mason jar. I am fairly new to the game so excuse my ignorance :))
Imbibe merrily
 
while the yeast is still bubbling or venting c02 you have nothing to worry about in either scenario because it pushes out oxygen but after the yeast drops then it can be a problem but only if you bottle and not very likely but it can happen
 
No matter the fermentor, if you're not going to leave the beer on the yeast cake for months, secondary is not technically necessary. I like to for clarification but nothing more. Not too worried about O2 - you're going to get it into your beer regardless so reasonable precautions are good enough.
 
Working this through my mind. CO2 is heavier than air. Emptying a conical will suck in air. Opening a bucket shouldn’t really disturb the CO2 layer on top of the beer. I don’t think I’d worry about the small amount of air sucked in. One could argue it would settle on top of the layer of CO2 anyway. I’d file this one under RDWHAHB.
 
Working this through my mind. CO2 is heavier than air. Emptying a conical will suck in air. Opening a bucket shouldn’t really disturb the CO2 layer on top of the beer. I don’t think I’d worry about the small amount of air sucked in. One could argue it would settle on top of the layer of CO2 anyway. I’d file this one under RDWHAHB.
I was thinking the same thing it sounds logical to me too. But when transfering into an empty keg thats why i push in a bit of Co2 through liquid post to hopefully form that same c02 blanketo_O.
 
Has anyone ever really experienced oxidizing that they can attribute to the 'beer handling' process, or are we just sticking to folklore? Brulosophy's success is based on debunking 'folklore'.

I'm not suggesting that oxidizing doesn't occur, but are we making it a bigger deal than necessary? We brew small batches that are generally consumed within weeks of bottling/kegging.

Not unlike others, I am pretty anal about my cleaning/sanitizing regimen and have always been consciencious when racking (primary to secondary) and even lay a blanket of CO2 in the secondary prior to racking to it.

I'm not suggesting that oxidization itself is a myth, rather it's a very real thing, but to what to degree are we potentially over-worrying about certain steps as it may oxidize the beer. Might be an interesting brulosophy exbeeriment. Is everything that black and white or are there tolerance ranges.
 
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oxidation is more noticeable if its there over long storage, if its consumed quick you wont even taste it
 
Has anyone ever really experienced oxidizing that they can attribute to the 'beer handling' process, or are we just sticking to folklore? Brulosophy's success is based on debunking 'folklore'.

I'm not suggesting that oxidizing doesn't occur, but are we making it a bigger deal than necessary? We brew small batches that are generally consumed within weeks of bottling/kegging.

Not unlike others, I am pretty anal about my cleaning/sanitizing regimen and have always been consciencious when racking (primary to secondary) and even lay a blanket of CO2 in the secondary prior to racking to it.

I'm not suggesting that oxidization itself is a myth, rather it's a very real thing, but to what to degree are we potentially over-worrying about certain steps as it may oxidize the beer. Might be an interesting brulosophy exbeeriment. Is everything that black and white or are there tolerance ranges.
I'm on the beer lore side of this.... J
High volume brewing is necessarily low oxygen. Where there's air, the ratio of surface to volume is much lower and almost everything is closed. With reasonable caution you can brew a beer that will last two or more years in a sealed bottle, open it and it will oxidize quickly. I wonder, aside from those "experts" who can taste the "something" lost in a Helles if an angel farts in a wort, how many of us can recognize oxidation. I know it from winemaking and have never encountered it in a beer poured fresh. I think it's the revival of the ancient, debunked hot-side aeration debate.
 
With the Fast Ferment there is no need to rack until it is time to bottle or keg, dropping the trub and yeast serves the same function as racking.
When I want to harvest the yeast, I don't want all the material from the first 3-4 days of primary. Therefore, I drop and sanitize the first ball, fill w/ co2, and re install. When the ball shows a nice yeast layer in the bottom following that, I close the valve, and check gravity. If FG is close, I close the valve and this starts the conditioning phase. Only when the remaining yeast drops will I consider packaging. Sort of off topic.....for the purpose of fining, getting the beer off the spent yeast and trub, I am asking who still racks from one vessel to another. The trend seems to be not racking.
 
if you really want to get picky about oxygen you would add co2 into the top of the Fast Ferment as your opening the valve, thats really the only drawback those set ups as your emptying anything your pulling in air in the head space, if left long enough it could impact the beer but in most cases it wont especially if you keg just vent the keg after filling
I do add CO2 to the FF whenever it is opened.
 
I ferment in a 6.5 gallon carboy, and then I rack to a 5 gallon carboy.
 
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When I do it, I have a couple of ways to do it and racking from one carboy to another is one of the methods I use routinely. I'm more concerned about finished beer going into the keg...if I use a secondary, I'm usually transferring while there's still a little activity or at least more suspended CO2 and what's released in transfer and produced later will ensure that O2 will be driven out of the headspace.
 
if you are transferring your beer to the secondary, what advantages are you seeing? Have you tried making your stable, reliable recipe and not transferring? I do think the occasional beers that I have taken from a secondary are a bit clearer, but they all seem to clear well in the keg. I would say my most common reason to actually use the secondary is to gain a fermenter when things are tight. I am of the belief that oxygen is not a good thing to have on the cold side, but I also believe that until I cold crash my beer, the yeast will scrounge the oxygen for me. I have gotten into the habit of transferring my beer from primary to a co2 purged corny and then leaving in the nursery for a couple of days before dropping the keg into the keezer for its cold crash/carbonation cycle. I have absolutely no data if this is helpful or not.
 

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