To Rack or Not To Rack

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by IPLAYDRUMS, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. I_playdrums

    I_playdrums Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Recently, I have been conditioning in the same fermenter as primary has been taking place. I use 7g Fast Ferments. The harvest "ball" allows the removal of initial trub, and secondly the yeast I want to harvest. After yeast removal, I leave the valve closed, and allow the slower floccing yeast to continue working, and scrub out remaining diacetyl and acetaldehyde. Also, reducing O2 exposure. Always looking to improve, any thoughts about said techniques appreciated.
     
  2. philjohnwilliams

    philjohnwilliams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    426
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Verdun, quebec
    With the Fast Ferment there is no need to rack until it is time to bottle or keg, dropping the trub and yeast serves the same function as racking.
     
  3. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    if you really want to get picky about oxygen you would add co2 into the top of the Fast Ferment as your opening the valve, thats really the only drawback those set ups as your emptying anything your pulling in air in the head space, if left long enough it could impact the beer but in most cases it wont especially if you keg just vent the keg after filling
     
  4. Medarius

    Medarius Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    successfully retired
    Location:
    Boondocks
    I have been watching countless vids on Conical fermenters, while debating if I should invest in one, and noticed the input of Oxygen during trub/yeast removal is biggest complaint. Is this something that would affect a 2-3 fermenting beer? Or is the amount of air allowed in comparable to someone using a bucket and taking the lid off 3 times during fermentation to check progress, i.e. gravity readings. ? I would think more air is exchanged in a bucket lid removal than is in a small mason jar. I am fairly new to the game so excuse my ignorance :))
    Imbibe merrily
     
  5. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    while the yeast is still bubbling or venting c02 you have nothing to worry about in either scenario because it pushes out oxygen but after the yeast drops then it can be a problem but only if you bottle and not very likely but it can happen
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,381
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    No matter the fermentor, if you're not going to leave the beer on the yeast cake for months, secondary is not technically necessary. I like to for clarification but nothing more. Not too worried about O2 - you're going to get it into your beer regardless so reasonable precautions are good enough.
     
  7. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Working this through my mind. CO2 is heavier than air. Emptying a conical will suck in air. Opening a bucket shouldn’t really disturb the CO2 layer on top of the beer. I don’t think I’d worry about the small amount of air sucked in. One could argue it would settle on top of the layer of CO2 anyway. I’d file this one under RDWHAHB.
     
    Head First and Trialben like this.
  8. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    9,428
    Likes Received:
    9,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    I was thinking the same thing it sounds logical to me too. But when transfering into an empty keg thats why i push in a bit of Co2 through liquid post to hopefully form that same c02 blanketo_O.
     
    IPLAYDRUMS likes this.
  9. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,772
    Likes Received:
    2,116
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    #9 Mase, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    Has anyone ever really experienced oxidizing that they can attribute to the 'beer handling' process, or are we just sticking to folklore? Brulosophy's success is based on debunking 'folklore'.

    I'm not suggesting that oxidizing doesn't occur, but are we making it a bigger deal than necessary? We brew small batches that are generally consumed within weeks of bottling/kegging.

    Not unlike others, I am pretty anal about my cleaning/sanitizing regimen and have always been consciencious when racking (primary to secondary) and even lay a blanket of CO2 in the secondary prior to racking to it.

    I'm not suggesting that oxidization itself is a myth, rather it's a very real thing, but to what to degree are we potentially over-worrying about certain steps as it may oxidize the beer. Might be an interesting brulosophy exbeeriment. Is everything that black and white or are there tolerance ranges.
     
    The Brew Mentor, Medarius and jeffpn like this.
  10. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    oxidation is more noticeable if its there over long storage, if its consumed quick you wont even taste it
     
    Mase likes this.
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,381
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    I'm on the beer lore side of this.... J
    High volume brewing is necessarily low oxygen. Where there's air, the ratio of surface to volume is much lower and almost everything is closed. With reasonable caution you can brew a beer that will last two or more years in a sealed bottle, open it and it will oxidize quickly. I wonder, aside from those "experts" who can taste the "something" lost in a Helles if an angel farts in a wort, how many of us can recognize oxidation. I know it from winemaking and have never encountered it in a beer poured fresh. I think it's the revival of the ancient, debunked hot-side aeration debate.
     
    thunderwagn and J A like this.
  12. I_playdrums

    I_playdrums Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    When I want to harvest the yeast, I don't want all the material from the first 3-4 days of primary. Therefore, I drop and sanitize the first ball, fill w/ co2, and re install. When the ball shows a nice yeast layer in the bottom following that, I close the valve, and check gravity. If FG is close, I close the valve and this starts the conditioning phase. Only when the remaining yeast drops will I consider packaging. Sort of off topic.....for the purpose of fining, getting the beer off the spent yeast and trub, I am asking who still racks from one vessel to another. The trend seems to be not racking.
     
  13. I_playdrums

    I_playdrums Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I do add CO2 to the FF whenever it is opened.
     
  14. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I ferment in a 6.5 gallon carboy, and then I rack to a 5 gallon carboy.
     
    J A likes this.
  15. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    When I do it, I have a couple of ways to do it and racking from one carboy to another is one of the methods I use routinely. I'm more concerned about finished beer going into the keg...if I use a secondary, I'm usually transferring while there's still a little activity or at least more suspended CO2 and what's released in transfer and produced later will ensure that O2 will be driven out of the headspace.
     
    Mase likes this.
  16. dankbrewing@gmail.com

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oregon
    if you are transferring your beer to the secondary, what advantages are you seeing? Have you tried making your stable, reliable recipe and not transferring? I do think the occasional beers that I have taken from a secondary are a bit clearer, but they all seem to clear well in the keg. I would say my most common reason to actually use the secondary is to gain a fermenter when things are tight. I am of the belief that oxygen is not a good thing to have on the cold side, but I also believe that until I cold crash my beer, the yeast will scrounge the oxygen for me. I have gotten into the habit of transferring my beer from primary to a co2 purged corny and then leaving in the nursery for a couple of days before dropping the keg into the keezer for its cold crash/carbonation cycle. I have absolutely no data if this is helpful or not.
     
    Trialben likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white