WC IPA Modern Grain/hops

[Brew Cat]

maybe use some T90 if your looking to get the bite he mentions
even in combination with the cryo
I've used the extract in NEIPA recipe that called for it I agree not worth the trouble
also have used it in combination with T90
I've only used cryo late or post boil
but that's a personal opinion

 

[Bigbre04]

maybe use some T90 if your looking to get the bite he mentions
even in combination with the cryo
I've used the extract in NEIPA recipe that called for it I agree not worth the trouble
also have used it in combination with T90
I've only used cryo late or post boil
but that's a personal opinion

i dont have the t90s. i have almost exclusively cryo hops on hand. if i use t90 i would not get close to my 4 full kegs after its all said and done. Im pushing my gear as hard as i can to make 2bbls of finished beer in a 2hl brewhouse.

 

[Dave Y]

The way I get around dry hopping as heavy, is to use a very large whirlpool addition, the flavor is better and the aroma is just as high. It picks up quite a bit of bitterness, so you have to watch it. An IBU of 65 with a 7% ABV beer seems to be the sweet spot for balance. The higher alcohol on the lighter colored beers can become sweet, so base malt selection important (Rahr Premium Pils is good).

I was going to throw out a hopping question on the topic of 5m hops / whirlpool / dry for WCIPA.
Gotta go back and look at my last efforts.

well a cold IPA would probably have corn or rice in the grist along with lager yeast and also drier
take away the adjuncts and use the lager yeast your closer to an IPL

ACK!
#Beefin

I stay away from rice or corn unless it's called for in the style - Mexican lagers as an example, KY Common, etc. Cold IPA? Not the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[Bigbre04]

I was going to throw out a hopping question on the topic of 5m hops / whirlpool / dry for WCIPA.
Gotta go back and look at my last efforts.

ACK!
#Beefin

I stay away from rice or corn unless it's called for in the style - Mexican lagers as an example, KY Common, etc. Cold IPA? Not the first thing that comes to mind.

What is your question on the hops?

 

[Dave Y]

I think this https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1576426/lutra-ipa is one of the top 3 IPA's I've brewed for aroma, period. I've had beers with less aroma quantity, but maybe more distinct character. The thiolized yeast for the NEIPA was off-the-hook aroma wise but the flavor was very, very tropical which is great if you love tropical flavor and aroma in beer, but it's definitely a niche beer.

I've certainly used more hops - a lot more and gotten less for it.
Belgian-ish IPA https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1555555/biipa again, if you like Belgians and IPAs, it's right in the lane, but you better like phenols ! Wait, can I say phenols here? It's definitely got a distinctive wheat beer like aroma from the yeast but the hops are a nice compliment. I actually still have this on tap and while the aroma is falling off, it's still prominent and good.

I did one prior that was way too bitter and followed it up with this one https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1393175/orphan-red
which for a "ginger" IPA, had great aroma and flavor.

I've got hops on order now - magnum, chinook, citra, centennial, CTZ, and I already have strata, mosaic, Idaho 7, and I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
My thinking is I'll do a small, token charge for 60m, nothing crazy, and load up the back end hops and whirlpool.

- I think probably Idaho 7, Mosaic are really nice for whirlpools, but I'm also thinking a solid "C" hop combination might be nice. I will be shooting for 6-6.5 ABV let's say around 65 IBU, but 55-65 is fine.

So, load up on the later boil hops?
whirlpool, or no whirlpool and just stick with flavor and aroma additions in the boil? - I've done both, but leaning toward whirlpool.

Dry hopping is where I don't think I'm doing it right. And I think this because 2 years back I bought 3 batches of "thiolized" yeast. I ran out 2 NEIPAs and they were in your face -in a good way. But, the 3rd one I used on a well hoped lager and it was also not lacking in aroma. I feel like I don't get good bang for my buck aroma from dry hopping. I've sort of landed in the 1 ounce per gallon-ish ratio in dry hopping and let them sit 3-4 days.

I like the idea of the fully attenuated, I won't say 'dry' but kinda dry WCIPA so that's where I want to take my next one.

 

[Brew Cat]

I think this https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1576426/lutra-ipa is one of the top 3 IPA's I've brewed for aroma, period. I've had beers with less aroma quantity, but maybe more distinct character. The thiolized yeast for the NEIPA was off-the-hook aroma wise but the flavor was very, very tropical which is great if you love tropical flavor and aroma in beer, but it's definitely a niche beer.

I've certainly used more hops - a lot more and gotten less for it.
Belgian-ish IPA https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1555555/biipa again, if you like Belgians and IPAs, it's right in the lane, but you better like phenols ! Wait, can I say phenols here? It's definitely got a distinctive wheat beer like aroma from the yeast but the hops are a nice compliment. I actually still have this on tap and while the aroma is falling off, it's still prominent and good.

I did one prior that was way too bitter and followed it up with this one https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1393175/orphan-red
which for a "ginger" IPA, had great aroma and flavor.

I've got hops on order now - magnum, chinook, citra, centennial, CTZ, and I already have strata, mosaic, Idaho 7, and I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
My thinking is I'll do a small, token charge for 60m, nothing crazy, and load up the back end hops and whirlpool.

- I think probably Idaho 7, Mosaic are really nice for whirlpools, but I'm also thinking a solid "C" hop combination might be nice. I will be shooting for 6-6.5 ABV let's say around 65 IBU, but 55-65 is fine.

So, load up on the later boil hops?
whirlpool, or no whirlpool and just stick with flavor and aroma additions in the boil? - I've done both, but leaning toward whirlpool.

Dry hopping is where I don't think I'm doing it right. And I think this because 2 years back I bought 3 batches of "thiolized" yeast. I ran out 2 NEIPAs and they were in your face -in a good way. But, the 3rd one I used on a well hoped lager and it was also not lacking in aroma. I feel like I don't get good bang for my buck aroma from dry hopping. I've sort of landed in the 1 ounce per gallon-ish ratio in dry hopping and let them sit 3-4 days.

I like the idea of the fully attenuated, I won't say 'dry' but kinda dry WCIPA so that's where I want to take my next one.

so have you tried coolpooling your WP ? then monitor your fermentation and dry hop just as the Krausen starts to drop
my bittering for a new IPA recipe is match the IBU to the OG for instance .057 I go 57 IBU not very scientific but gets me in the ball park then adjust to your preference next time

 

[Brew Cat]

something I need to do more thinking on is the role of ph
I have read that hoppy beer you want to mash at the higher end say 5.6 and less Hoppy lower Ph say 5.2
the reason being you want a higher boil ph for hop utilization
ph will drop maybe .03 in the kettle so say 5.3 which would be better than lower for hop utilization

 

[Dave Y]

so have you tried coolpooling your WP ? then monitor your fermentation and dry hop just as the Krausen starts to drop
my bittering for a new IPA recipe is match the IBU to the OG for instance .057 I go 57 IBU not very scientific but gets me in the ball park then adjust to your preference next time

With Lutra IPA; aka, the poor man's cold IPA, I did drop the hops as the krausen started fading, but I've not specifically tried cool pooling. I will say that I did up my whirlpool game with the riptide pump. Now I can get a pretty good rotation going. Enough that I was seeing the intake hose collapse,so I've just added braided hose.

I've not seen the higher pH suggestion, interesting.
When I thought more about this last night, I think I've gotten a handle on bittering and bittering with more correct hops, even late addition hops. I understand whirlpooling and I believe I've executed it well in previous NEIPAs. My last 2 NEIPA were good. It's the dry hop where I really feel like I'm leaving something on the table.

 

[Brew Cat]

yeah I saw that Ph thing pop up a couple times in my reading
I adjusted a couple recipes to test
according to this article if I mash in at say 5.2 my kettle ph will 5.0 or lower which would be fine for a non hoppy beer but a hoppy you would want the kettle to be say 5.4 to increase hop utilization so mash ph of 5.6
splitting hairs but
https://byo.com/articles/how-important-is-kettle-ph/

 

[Brew Cat]

by the way mostly I shoot for 5.4 in all my recipes which is perfect in IMO the only thing I have to do in most of my IPA recipes is not acidify my mash which hits the 5.6 mark without any adjustment at all

 

[Dave Y]

I've been shooting for between 5.2-5.4 depending, but for the pale ales, I've shot for 5.2 at the kettle. Hmm. Will check that article out.

 

[Craigerrr]

In relationship to the fermentation process, can you describe when you are adding your dry hop charge(s)?

 

[Dave Y]

In relationship to the fermentation process, can you describe when you are adding your dry hop charge(s)?

good question!

I used to wait for fermentation to finish or near finish. I've gotten some good aroma this way but have moved to dry hopping closer to the @Bigbre04 preferred narrative; If on a Kveik ferment, at about the half way mark - 16-20 hours in or in a normal ferment, at high krausen.
Hops will stay in for about 3 days-ish. I have tinkered with a double dry hop, so a couple I dropped hop charges twice, once at high krausen and the 2nd 3 days after, cold crashing about a week later. IIRC both were NEIPA and had good aroma but not appreciably more. Nobody complained about lack of aroma mind you, I'm just saying that I didn't see a large difference for the effort.

 

[Craigerrr]

Cold crash NEIPA?
Now why on earth would you do that?
Personally I found that I didn't get the aroma I was looking for when dry hopping early (some may argue, and reference some guy named Scott, and "isomerization"). The aroma coming out of the fermenter when I did that was crazy. I deduced that there is only so much aroma the hops can impart into the beer, and that it was being scrubbed out with the escaping Co2. After moving to dryhopping either very close to the end of fermentation, or later that the aro.a results were much improved.
YMMV, and I ain't no Pro Brewer, just sharing my my real world results. Apologies to @Bigbre04 if this contradicts his methods or results.

 

[Brew Cat]

for the best bio transfermation you don't do it at high krausen because the hops will sit on and in the Krausen and drop to the yeast bed which is a waste
you monitor the fermentation and dry hop just as the Krausen starts to drop

 

[Craigerrr]

for the best bio transfermation you don't do it at high krausen because the hops will sit on and in the Krausen and drop to the yeast bed which is a waste
you monitor the fermentation and dry hop just as the Krausen starts to drop

Agreed, iso bio transformification FTW

 

[Dave Y]

Cold crash NEIPA?
Now why on earth would you do that?
Personally I found that I didn't get the aroma I was looking for when dry hopping early (some may argue, and reference some guy named Scott, and "isomerization"). The aroma coming out of the fermenter when I did that was crazy. I deduced that there is only so much aroma the hops can impart into the beer, and that it was being scrubbed out with the escaping Co2. After moving to dryhopping either very close to the end of fermentation, or later that the aro.a results were much improved.
YMMV, and I ain't no Pro Brewer, just sharing my my real world results. Apologies to @Bigbre04 if this contradicts his methods or results.

I just read something about the aroma escaping ( .. now wondering if that tab is still open ) gonna check that out too.

 

[Dave Y]

Agreed, iso bio transformification FTW

If a non brewer comes across this in a 'net search, they're probably going to think this is the start of a horror movie.

 

[Brew Cat]

Cold crash NEIPA?
Now why on earth would you do that?
Personally I found that I didn't get the aroma I was looking for when dry hopping early (some may argue, and reference some guy named Scott, and "isomerization"). The aroma coming out of the fermenter when I did that was crazy. I deduced that there is only so much aroma the hops can impart into the beer, and that it was being scrubbed out with the escaping Co2. After moving to dryhopping either very close to the end of fermentation, or later that the aro.a results were much improved.
YMMV, and I ain't no Pro Brewer, just sharing my my real world results. Apologies to @Bigbre04 if this contradicts his methods or results.

I crash mine to get all the crap out
you shouldn't be counting on suspended particles for haze and flavor it should be infused into the beer not floating around in it

 

[Brew Cat]

I just read something about the aroma escaping ( .. now wondering if that tab is still open ) gonna check that out too.

see my above post
do it as the Krausen is dropping