- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
- Messages
- 3,154
- Reaction score
- 5,251
- Points
- 113
I might be nuts, but wouldn't it be easier to make some Kombucha?
Brewing "non alcohol" or n/a beer
- Thread starter Dave Y
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2015
- Messages
- 1,873
- Reaction score
- 3,075
- Points
- 113
Unfortunately, this is a myth that never seems to die.
Co2 is indeed heavier than air, but it mixes in with the atmosphere almost instantly. There may be a higher concentration of co2 for over the beer for a very short period on time, but it won't "protect' the beer. Beer stales with as little as 100 parts per billion, so just a small amount will destroy beer in as little as 20 minutes. The air in a transfer hose is enough to destroy an entire keg of beer. Oxygen ingress is often the last problem conquered by both homebrewers and pro's alike.
Making NA beer on a home brew level may be possible, but I doubt it would be any good. Heating beer, exposing it to the atmosphere, removing a main flavor component all while using ordinary home brew equipment and keeping the flavor in tact seems like an impossible task. The equipment and technical skills to accomplish this is beyond my abilities at home. This is one frontier I will never explore.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2019
- Messages
- 5,112
- Reaction score
- 11,736
- Points
- 113
I agree.
Or a lowish alcohol beer and dilute with soda water or sprite as sort of beer shandy.
Or the almost alcohol free rock shandy & malawi shandy
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2023
- Messages
- 783
- Reaction score
- 1,281
- Points
- 93
I'm sure it would be easier.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2016
- Messages
- 4,529
- Reaction score
- 4,144
- Points
- 113
We're over-thinking it...
Time to put some beer in a pot and see what happens. Either we'll have something drinkable or continue to stock up on Athletic.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2023
- Messages
- 783
- Reaction score
- 1,281
- Points
- 93
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2016
- Messages
- 4,529
- Reaction score
- 4,144
- Points
- 113
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,738
- Reaction score
- 5,702
- Points
- 113
You didn't lie. You did come back with car parts. It just so happened that they were all stuck together in the form of a real nice car!
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2023
- Messages
- 783
- Reaction score
- 1,281
- Points
- 93
THIS... is exactly what I told my wife. It spawned a weeks long debate with all of our friends, which resulted in a unanimous loss for her. Everyone agreed it was a 2nd wedding, not a 'mere celebration'. So one of my friends asked what would happen if I got roped into another wedding. I had to think about it for a moment, but her car would get replaced with the biggest Ford Super Duty I could find. She's not a fan of getting in and out of my Raptor either.
I've done some more digging on NA beers and may try one of the fancy new to me yeasts. Definitely going to be a small batch, if I screw it up or it comes out poorly, I won't be as disappointed as losing 5-6 gallons.
I wonder if you could make something drinkable by creating wort and simply not fermenting it. Like hop water plus.
The grain bill would need to be…smaller. Just some flavor, not really too diastatic (meaning not much sugar). They do sell non-diastatic malt, giving flavor and no fermentables. With just a little fermentable sugar from the small and mostly non-diastatic grain bill, by using yeast to ferment - kinda like making root beer - you can cut the sweetness while still ending up with under 0.5%.
And some flavorful hops, with relatively low IBUs, in the teens or 20s, for a bit of bite. But not hop water.
The grain bill would need to be…smaller. Just some flavor, not really too diastatic (meaning not much sugar). They do sell non-diastatic malt, giving flavor and no fermentables. With just a little fermentable sugar from the small and mostly non-diastatic grain bill, by using yeast to ferment - kinda like making root beer - you can cut the sweetness while still ending up with under 0.5%.
And some flavorful hops, with relatively low IBUs, in the teens or 20s, for a bit of bite. But not hop water.
Be careful with NA, the alcohol component is pretty key to food safety without pasteurizing.
As an edit to my post above, I should have mentioned that a boil is assumed, otherwise the hops won’t offer much bitterness. Boiling is also kinda needed for sanitizing.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2021
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 3
The site ultralow brewing gives lots of tips and recipes. Their guides give all the details for you to achieve decent low ABV beers
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2016
- Messages
- 4,529
- Reaction score
- 4,144
- Points
- 113
This is great! Seems that mashing routine and yeast selection can yield a suitably low ABV beer. We're taking away the thing that makes it a preserved food, so I can definitely see issues with shelf-life and food safety but there are ways to deal with that.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2019
- Messages
- 5,112
- Reaction score
- 11,736
- Points
- 113
Totally of topic, but I gotta ask:
Where are you from? Since you got Guust Flater as an avatar....
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2021
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 3
Hahaha! France! I love Gaston Lagaffe who is Belgian in fact from the genius drawer André Franquin
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2023
- Messages
- 783
- Reaction score
- 1,281
- Points
- 93
yeah, one of them introduced me to the 'cold mash'. Pretty neat idea and would be good for low alcohol.
I wonder if I could do a slightly more grain 'cold mash' + fancy yeast to achieve a hopefully better / good result. It will get tried soon, but not yet because I need it ready for week 3 Dec. and it will either work or I'll buy commercial. I don't want it hanging around long for the potential contamination issue.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2016
- Messages
- 4,529
- Reaction score
- 4,144
- Points
- 113
That's the factor I'd be most concerned with. I'm pretty sure that I can use my canner and stack pints in my big boil pot and hold water at 170-180F for long enough to pasteurize the beer. I'd have to get a can or two up to temp to be sure they wouldn't leak or blow but I think they'd hold.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2023
- Messages
- 783
- Reaction score
- 1,281
- Points
- 93
Today w
I've just found out the hard way that the information at this site is like the Pirate Code ; more like guidelines than actual rules.
After more reading than I've done in quite some time, I ran it today, recipe here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1605665/n-a-neipa
Inspiration for it was from: https://ultralowbrewing.com/murrays-hazy-ipa-0-4-abv/
Today was a master class in Murphy's Law.
My notes are in the recipe link but, short story long:
I used the b/f calculator to establish the mash, hops, chems and acid. I checked pH before pitch and had about a 3.0 pH, along the lines of what I was expecting and was targeting a 4-4.5 mash pH. I got 4.88. But that wasn't the biggest issue. The main issue was I overshot the SG within the first 10 minutes. Yes, literally 10 minutes after mashing in, I was on a collision course with a bad brew day. I was aiming for about 1.018 all in. by 10 minutes I had 1.026 on the refractometer. Then I did what I could to correct this - add more r/o water, which in turn made my pH rise, which made me need more acid. I think I added acid 5 times today, in addition to adding the initial batch with the chemicals.
My pH meter decided today was a good day to die. Or at least try really hard. After adding what I thought would be the last bit of water to my mash water ; pre-boil, I went to confirm my pH after the last acid addition. No joy. Error after error. I ended up on the phone with the vendor's tech support. They didn't really contribute to the final answer, but they did commiserate and provide some info that may be helpful going forward- and I probably have sensors that need replacing, so I order a pair. But, I did get a reading with brute force - 3.5. That's a little under everything I've seen. I put in .5 tsp baking soda. and hoped for the best. It wouldn't be the last time for the pH meter after all...
I thought I had it close by the end of the boil, the refractometer led me astray by a bit, but I was not yet aware. I whirlpool hopped for 20m, and chilled. Immediately t/f to the fermenter and saw my SG was way, way over the line. I found myself constantly having to think backwards today trying to keep the gravity DOWN not achieve higher gravity. The tilt showed I was way over; 1.026 post boil, I was expecting about 1.019. I had exactly 3.5 gallons in the fermenter - which is about .5 gallons more than I was expecting to get, but all things considered, not a bit deal as it will work better with the chiller anyway. I can't leave that much sugar in the beer without trouble, so my only choice was add more r/o water. I ended up at about 5.25 gallons, 4.1 pH, 1.018 SG.
I did expect it to be challenging, I'm about 50/50 on a successful outcome, and have backup n/a beers just in case.
At some point, I'm going to go back on this and try to red team my actions and reactions. For now, I can say that a high temp mash with reduced mash bill isn't enough by itself.
If it doesn't come out, I'll have to try either a cold mash, or reducing the current mash bill by about 70-75%. IDK how they're getting such a low yield yet (obviously). I'll keep an eye on it and update with further results.
I've just found out the hard way that the information at this site is like the Pirate Code ; more like guidelines than actual rules.
After more reading than I've done in quite some time, I ran it today, recipe here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1605665/n-a-neipa
Inspiration for it was from: https://ultralowbrewing.com/murrays-hazy-ipa-0-4-abv/
Today was a master class in Murphy's Law.
My notes are in the recipe link but, short story long:
I used the b/f calculator to establish the mash, hops, chems and acid. I checked pH before pitch and had about a 3.0 pH, along the lines of what I was expecting and was targeting a 4-4.5 mash pH. I got 4.88. But that wasn't the biggest issue. The main issue was I overshot the SG within the first 10 minutes. Yes, literally 10 minutes after mashing in, I was on a collision course with a bad brew day. I was aiming for about 1.018 all in. by 10 minutes I had 1.026 on the refractometer. Then I did what I could to correct this - add more r/o water, which in turn made my pH rise, which made me need more acid. I think I added acid 5 times today, in addition to adding the initial batch with the chemicals.
My pH meter decided today was a good day to die. Or at least try really hard. After adding what I thought would be the last bit of water to my mash water ; pre-boil, I went to confirm my pH after the last acid addition. No joy. Error after error. I ended up on the phone with the vendor's tech support. They didn't really contribute to the final answer, but they did commiserate and provide some info that may be helpful going forward- and I probably have sensors that need replacing, so I order a pair. But, I did get a reading with brute force - 3.5. That's a little under everything I've seen. I put in .5 tsp baking soda. and hoped for the best. It wouldn't be the last time for the pH meter after all...
I thought I had it close by the end of the boil, the refractometer led me astray by a bit, but I was not yet aware. I whirlpool hopped for 20m, and chilled. Immediately t/f to the fermenter and saw my SG was way, way over the line. I found myself constantly having to think backwards today trying to keep the gravity DOWN not achieve higher gravity. The tilt showed I was way over; 1.026 post boil, I was expecting about 1.019. I had exactly 3.5 gallons in the fermenter - which is about .5 gallons more than I was expecting to get, but all things considered, not a bit deal as it will work better with the chiller anyway. I can't leave that much sugar in the beer without trouble, so my only choice was add more r/o water. I ended up at about 5.25 gallons, 4.1 pH, 1.018 SG.
I did expect it to be challenging, I'm about 50/50 on a successful outcome, and have backup n/a beers just in case.
At some point, I'm going to go back on this and try to red team my actions and reactions. For now, I can say that a high temp mash with reduced mash bill isn't enough by itself.
If it doesn't come out, I'll have to try either a cold mash, or reducing the current mash bill by about 70-75%. IDK how they're getting such a low yield yet (obviously). I'll keep an eye on it and update with further results.
