Guinness clone with a twist

[JVi]

I am getting back to business, now with my own build equipment. I use to "make" beer with friends at early and mid 90s from Coopers extracts.
Set up:
32l kettle with water/wort circulation
Copper coil chiller with closed water circulation. Will need more development to this, both chiller and water tank.
So to my real topic.
I decided to start with easy one and did my version of Guinness clone, and it ended up kind of ok. Only kind of low from alcohol point of view.
BIAB process
22l of water, all straight to kettle.
Grain bill:
3.2 kg Maris Otter Pale
0.5 kg Roasted Barley
0.4 kg Chocolate malt
0.5 kg Flaked barley
Hops:
25g East Kent Goldings 60min
25g Fuggle 60min
Extras:
100ml food tar 60min
Yeast:
1pc Lalbrew Nottigham ALE

15l to Fermenter(plastic bucket)
60min mash at 68 C
60min boil
Cooling time was 35min, 20min more than i hoped
20 C pitching temp
Fermenting temp was between 12-20 C
OG 1.064 Tuesday
FG 1.040 Today, no bubbles since saturday
Not bottled yet, waiting few days and follow FG values

Little mishap with hops, i left kettle lid on after i put hops and some of the hops ended up on the lid.
Taste is kind of what i hoped and expected, little more tar was hoped to come out(wife said it is ok) and little more bitterness(mishap with hops maybe). Little watery feeling due to low alcohol maybe.
Was expecting lower FG

Feel free to comment and all tips are welcomed

 

[Dave Y]

is that FG correct, 1.040 ? That's really high. I'd expect this to be a very sweet 'beer'.

 

[J A]

12C is very cool for that yeast. If it dropped to that at any point, it could have stalled the fermentation and started dropping yeast prematurely. I'd swirl the heck out of the fermenter and warm it to minimum 20C and if that didn't restart it and bring it down, I'd repith with an actively foaming rehydrated packet of Notty.
It's just not beer yet at 1.040.

 

[JVi]

is that FG correct, 1.040 ? That's really high. I'd expect this to be a very sweet 'beer'.

I expected it to be more sweet than it actually was.

 

[JVi]

12C is very cool for that yeast. If it dropped to that at any point, it could have stalled the fermentation and started dropping yeast prematurely. I'd swirl the heck out of the fermenter and warm it to minimum 20C and if that didn't restart it and bring it down, I'd repith with an actively foaming rehydrated packet of Notty.
It's just not beer yet at 1.040.

Fermentation place is still under work and temperature did drop one night to 12 there. I did suspect that this could be one possible reason that "fast" fermentation/high FG. I will try that swirl and let see what happens.
Thanks

 

[Dave Y]

12C is very cool for that yeast. If it dropped to that at any point, it could have stalled the fermentation and started dropping yeast prematurely. I'd swirl the heck out of the fermenter and warm it to minimum 20C and if that didn't restart it and bring it down, I'd repith with an actively foaming rehydrated packet of Notty.
It's just not beer yet at 1.040.

I agree, at 1.040, there is still work to do and a 2nd pitch can recover it. I know I'll probably start another beef, but at this point I'd do a starter with the 2nd pitch yeast. Sure, a 2nd pitch straight out of the packaged or rehydrated should work. But a starter, after the cell multiplication is about as strong a yeast pitch as you can get and will leave very little to ambiguity.

Overkill is highly underrated.

 

[J A]

I agree, at 1.040, there is still work to do and a 2nd pitch can recover it. I know I'll probably start another beef, but at this point I'd do a starter with the 2nd pitch yeast. Sure, a 2nd pitch straight out of the packaged or rehydrated should work. But a starter, after the cell multiplication is about as strong a yeast pitch as you can get and will leave very little to ambiguity.

Overkill is highly underrated.

The starter isn't a bad idea but I think it's probably not needed. I've re-krausened with really active rehydrated yeast and had good success. I wouldn't assume success with dry yeast sprinkled right onto the wort but it might work if it's swirled up pretty good.
The good thing is that an .040 wort has so much more fermentation to go that it won't suffer from any inadvertent oxygenation.

 

[JVi]

Just giving good swirl and temperature raise didn´t do the job, so i need to get 2nd pack of that yeast. Didn´t have that one, only what i was meaning to use with my next run(IPA).
Thanks for both of you.

 

[J A]

By the way, you don't mention how you're taking gravity readings but if, by chance, you're using a refractometer instead of a hydrometer, you may not be getting an accurate reading.

 

[JVi]

Oh right i didn't. I am using hydrometer. I have refractometer also but i hate that thing, i tried to use that with wines...

 

[JVi]

My measuring glass(plastic) is too big and cloudy, so there is little error possible in numbers but not that big. Using spare one now, original broke earlier. Ordered new today.

 

[Sandy Feet]

It depends how long the beer was that cold, but 1.04 is higher than hell. 1.014 or a tick higher might be kind of nice.
I have a Porter that I have done a few times that I like. I normally use a Guinness strain liquid, and it likes to be about 66 or 67F. I guess that is just under 20C.

 

[JVi]

It depends how long the beer was that cold, but 1.04 is higher than hell. 1.014 or a tick higher might be kind of nice.
I have a Porter that I have done a few times that I like. I normally use a Guinness strain liquid, and it likes to be about 66 or 67F. I guess that is just under 20C.

Difficult to say exact time when someone cut of electricity from MY storage room, but 12-24h is good estimation.

 

[JVi]

Today i had time to continue this project and measured again with new measuring glass and now FG was 1.036, so either there has been some activity left or previous numbers was little off.
Was on short work trip and had time to see better you suggestions how i should proceed and also did little research based on those suggestions.
Decided that this batch went sideways anyway so from learning point i did 2nd dry pitch and now i will wait and see if that starts it or not. Then in the future i know not to do that again.

 

[Yooper]

Today i had time to continue this project and measured again with new measuring glass and now FG was 1.036, so either there has been some activity left or previous numbers was little off.
Was on short work trip and had time to see better you suggestions how i should proceed and also did little research based on those suggestions.
Decided that this batch went sideways anyway so from learning point i did 2nd dry pitch and now i will wait and see if that starts it or not. Then in the future i know not to do that again.

What is this 'measuring glass' you're using? Is it a calibrated brewing hydrometer?

 

[JVi]

With measuring glass i mean this cylinder glass/plastic where hydrometer is "dropped".
I have calibrated hydrometer in use. This one is in use with wines and beer now, i have another for moonshines.

 

[Yooper]

With measuring glass i mean this cylinder glass/plastic where hydrometer is "dropped".
I have calibrated hydrometer in use. This one is in use with wines and beer now, i have another for moonshines.

Ok, I assumed that but wanted to be sure that was a hydrometer being used. What is ‘food tar’ in the recipe? I’ve missed that explanation I think.

What was your mash temperature? It’s possible that if it was too warm that they necessary enzymes may have been denatured.

 

[JVi]

Food tar is something we have here in Finland, at least. It is actual tar that is made for food industry.

Mash temp was 68 C, first water was 72C and when i added grains to bag it dropped 66-67C.

 

[JVi]

Little more about this fiasco, re-start didn´t work or my fermenter is leaking pressure out somewhere because haven´t seen too many bubbles at water lock.
Thinking checking FG again either monday or tuesday evening to see has there happened something.
Anyway i am now started thinking about bottling. I am somewhat unsure about the situation right now, original plan was to wait 1-2 week after FG has stopped dropping, but now it hasn´t dropped where it was supposed to drop and there is more yeast that in original plan was. Any tips from here?

Drank that last measurement dosage, some observation from there. Tar is starting to come out, and if it continues like that it could go little over. so for next batch i am thinking dropping tar from 100 to 50ml.

Also bought bibble called how to brew.

 

[Sandy Feet]

You do not want to bottle if the gravity is not terminal unless you like bottle bombs.
Not sure about the tar stuff. Chocolate 350 or Roasted Barley should be what you want for the roasty/bitterness.