Yoghurt on the nose...

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by The Green Man, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Cracked open a bottle of my Black IPA with a friend and to mine and his surprise there was a slight whiff of yoghurt / some kind of lactose. Very strange as there was no lactose.
    Aroma hops (mosaic) went in with the yeast for two weeks in a bag and then more for dry hopping at three days to go. Dry hops were commando.
    Tea strained out the hops on transfer to bottling bucket. Oxidization? But, don't know what that tastes like...
    Any ideas?
     
  2. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    Oxidation is like biting into wet cardboard.
    Sounds like you have a slight infection. I'd try to drink the batch as quickly as possible before the taste gets worse or potential bottle bombs
     
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  3. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    Haven't used them myself but have heard of people getting different off flavors from mosaic hops. Have you used them much before?
     
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  4. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I get a "lactate" flavor in beers, generally very hoppy ones. The flavor of old, oxidized hops has been described as "cheesy" so if you got some hops that had been improperly stored, that might be the cause.
     
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  5. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Cheers all. I've not used mosaic much and I have some left for SMaSH PA. So, if that has the same flavour it might be that.
    It's not cardboard flavour, not that I can guarantee that I know what that tastes like either :)
    I suspect it might be the hops, but the supplier has just started having mosaic, so I'm guessing its not old stock...of course, can't know for sure.
    Kind of suspect the long aroma addition might be to blame. They were in for 2 weeks...Didn't have problems before, but it wasn't Mosaic though.
    Just in case, I will drink it all speedily to avoid bottle bombs;)....the sacrifices I make for this hobby:confused:!
     
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  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Mosaic has a "cat pee" flavor to me. Our homebrew shop did a Mosaic SMASH group brew a while back, all the beers had the same flavor, I believe "ribes" is the more polite way of phrasing it. But I'm not too thrilled with Mosaic. Never have been.
     
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  7. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Oh dear, I'm going to be making Cat Pee Ale...
    The upside is that I will know that this is a hop to use or avoid like the plague...or cat pee...;)
    I just remembered that I used some saaz too and they had been in the freezer, but were quite old. That may be the yoghurt hint right there...:eek:
     
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  8. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I don't ever experience the Cat Pee flavor from hops, though the hops that are noted for that tendency can seem biting and lingering for me. A lot of people don't like Columbus or Cluster because of Cat Pee flavor, but I really like both of those hops. Neither seems harsh when I use them. The Columbus gives me a lot of dank pot/pine/fruit flavor and aroma and the Cluster gives me a crisp earthy/spice/light pine/floral/fruit balance.
     
  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    My last batch of the infamous "Kentucky Common" had a very faint but to me noticeable oniony flavor - I got a bulk batch of Magnum a while back and a bunch of Hallertau. Vegetal - onion, garlic or green pepper - are the most common off-flavors from hops but cheesy is also mentioned. Makes me rethink the idea of buying hops in bulk, even though I freeze them once they're here.
     
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  10. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Ha- I get "catty" from citra and simcoe in combination. Only a beer judge or brewer would use the sentence, "This beer has the aroma of cat pee, in a good way"!
     
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  11. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I don't like Citra in a lot of beers...and it seems to be in every beer on the market these days. :rolleyes: It has that harsh, lingering bite in the bittering. I still get dank pot in the flavor profile when it's balanced properly and I like that flavor. I guess I just experience it as something a little different, but it's what a lot of folks think of as cat pee.
     
  12. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I get a lot of onion aroma when I open my bag of Columbus, but I don't get that from the beer. I think if I used it heavily in the dry-hop, it'd be more problematic. The oniony characteristic was one of the first things I thought of at the mention of hops as a possible source of the odd aroma.
     
  13. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I used Magnum and Tettnanger. And the second bottle I opened last night, no trace of onion or garlic but definite contribution from the good old fashioned blackstrap molasses they would have had in that area! But there is a "cheesy" hop aroma I get in some beers - I can't tell you what hops cause it - and I'm fairly convinced that's what the OP was reporting.

    And the "cat pee" reference to the Mosaic Challenge beers was definitely NOT being used in a good way!
     
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  14. lostmicrobiologist

    lostmicrobiologist New Member

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    Yogurt has a "tangy" smell due to the conversion of sugars like lactose into lactic acid, lowering the pH greatly. Is it possible there has been an addition of Lactobacillus into the beer? Other "beer spoiling" bacteria (like Pediococcus) can convert sugars into lactic acid as well, so those are also possibilities. If you're smelling something buttery, that might be related to diacetyl. Sorry if I'm way off, I'm no beer expert, just a humble microbiologist. As such, I always recommend doing a gram stain of the culprit to identify a potential contaminant.
     
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  15. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    Hey, you have an expertise the rest of us lack. That's handy as hell.
     
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  16. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Definitely not way off. :)
    I'd say that the 2 things you mention are the most likely source of the OP's troubles. Low level pedio or lacto infection from the environment would be the first thing I'd consider with this sort of off flavor or aroma. For that matter, beer lines serving kegged beer cold become contaminated and result in exactly the sort of thing you describe. I personally find yoghurt to be unpalatable at best and I'd be very disappointed if my beer had that aroma. :eek:
     
  17. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Thanks all. I am currently consuming said batch.
    The yoghurt aroma isn't even present in most of the bottles I've had, happily. Am drinking them just in case, simply to avoid bottle bombs of course;)
     
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  18. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    A true home Brewer at heart.
    Cheers!
     
  19. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! Safety first!
     
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  20. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    Without safety we have nothing.
     
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