yeast starter from bottle

Zambi

Zambi

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I've found a lot of info but still a bit unsure.
I want to use the yeast from one of my bottled beers.
It's i a swing top bottle.
So I though I pour and drink the beer (important step) then add something to the bottle for the yeast to eat.
I don't have DME and I think apple juice only has simple sugars.
So, my idea was a little mash in my thermos flask with pilsner malt. What SG should I aim for? I thought around 1.040, roughly 200 ml crushed grain to the liter.
Should I do a quick boil thereafter? Cool down and give to the yeast?
200 ml or so?
Keep at the yeast's preferred temperature and shake the bottle often? Putting the lid on, but not tightened? I have an airlock that will fit if that's better.
I have yeast nutrients as well.

Once fermentation starts proper, I can use it?

I've used old trub before by pouring ready wort on it, but never from bottle

Any help/comments/silly jokes are appreciated ;)
 
I thought maybe it nerded more than just sugar?
If not, then that's easiest!
 
I'm sure someone will be along to tell me how wrong I am soon :)

I have a proper old school brewery locally and their bottling process is exactly that, just a simple sugar syrup into the cask and it will carbonate in the bottle. Going to try it myself today. My logic says that yeast activity is yeast activity, if it will ferment in the bottle it will ferment in a fermenter.

I have read about 'stepping' starters in that way though, so maybe you need to grow it to a level or volume before pitching?
 
You sure can do that Zambezi.

Another trick I use every Brew day is collect some of your wort into your flask bottle ect.

The beauty about the flask is I can take the boiling wort straight off the kettle.
But the bottle will work fine. (Will have to put it in a stainless pot and let it cool)

If your brewing regularly then overbuilding your brew volume by 1 lt or 2lt to accommodate future starter is no extra work except remembering to do it on brew day.

I went the route your thinking of years ago when I was looking for a quick solution for starter wort.
I brewed a mini batch of beer boiled it to sanitize then decanted onto some mason jars then submerged the jars in a boiling pot of water for another couple of minutes.
A pressure cooker is what I needed...

Problem was A my process wasn't sanitary and 2 weeks later I went to grab one of these jars to wip up a quick starter and it was a horrible stinky mess of wild fermentation and pressure and foam and mess!:eek:.

B honestly most starters I do are usually 5-10% of my batch size so I need 1-2lt of starter wort so the jars would be used in 1 starter.

That's where I arrived at the convenient no-chill option above where I spin a RWS for every beer I do overnight whilst the main batch is cooling.

Most times it's done the next day if not it goes in at high krausen :).

Oh save that original starter jar for the 500ml of the RWS to keep for next batch.

Anyhow either way works but for me I found without a pressure cooker I can't rely on saved wort it's too risky.
 
I only do small batches (7 ltr or so), so starter doesn't need to be big.
And normally I'll go back to back with the trub.
It's just now for a quick brew (maybe 5 litre) that I want to use the type of yeast I got in the bottle and I don't want to open a new pack.
It will also be used as soon as it is ready.
I figured that grolsch bottle is already clean and yeast is in there, so no.need for decanting.
And if I can use apple juice... That would make it real easy
 
Zambezi Special said:
I don't have DME and I think apple juice only has simple sugars.
Click to expand...
Wort is the best, I'm not sure apple juice will contain a lot of the nutrients needed to grow healthy yeast, plus it has a pretty low pH compared to wort. Save the bottle (with the beer in it) and the next brew set aside some wort to spin up the yeast in your bottle. The wort can be diluted to 1.035 or so. If you pitch into a gravity that is too high, it stresses the yeast. That especially true for older yeast from a bottle.
 
Or just get some DME on your next purchase and use that.
 
Herm brews said:
@Zambezi Special has yeast nutrients. Would apple juice + yeast nutrients be a viable path to a good starter? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Click to expand...
DAP will certainly help the yeast, but it isn't what is in wort.
I'm not sure and doubt it would hurt the yeast in any way, but have always used DME as a starter
 
The Brew Mentor said:
DAP will certainly help the yeast, but it isn't what is in wort.
I'm not sure and doubt it would hurt the yeast in any way, but have always used DME as a starter
Click to expand...
We need @Zambezi Special to be our Guinea pig in this experiment:D
What about using the yeast in the bottle with a sanitized scoop of slurry from a fermenter as nutrient using apple juice for the sugars?
 
Zambezi Special said:
I've found a lot of info but still a bit unsure.
I want to use the yeast from one of my bottled beers.
It's i a swing top bottle.
So I though I pour and drink the beer (important step) then add something to the bottle for the yeast to eat.
I don't have DME and I think apple juice only has simple sugars.
So, my idea was a little mash in my thermos flask with pilsner malt. What SG should I aim for? I thought around 1.040, roughly 200 ml crushed grain to the liter.
Should I do a quick boil thereafter? Cool down and give to the yeast?
200 ml or so?
Keep at the yeast's preferred temperature and shake the bottle often? Putting the lid on, but not tightened? I have an airlock that will fit if that's better.
I have yeast nutrients as well.

Once fermentation starts proper, I can use it?

I've used old trub before by pouring ready wort on it, but never from bottle

Any help/comments/silly jokes are appreciated ;)
Click to expand...
No Jokes! We are not here for fun! :p

Yes, you can do exactly as you oropose. Boiling the wort is best, so it is sanitized. If you have some, a cover of loose-ish aluminum foil would be ideal. After 24 hours (shake it a couple times) chill it. The foil cap is fine, don't seal it. Keep it cool and it will last for at least a month. When it comes time to use it, poor off the excess liquid, leaving enough to swirl and rouse the east and just dump it into the fermenter.

Remember, with liquid yeast like this you must also add oxygen to the wort. Either a couple of good shakes or just let the hose splash into the fermenting vessel.
 
Lots of folks do just fine with the double oh seven method.....shaken ...not stirred? But since you have nutrient, you could try the low gravity, high nitrogen and nutrient method which favors a lower then normal, way < 1040 wort. Take a look at that new method for starters string on here or if you're looking for something to read, check out Dr. Maria Moutsoglou 's papers on this process.
 
Yep, beer was fermented in the bottle. Well actually primed and bottle conditioned but for now I consider that some forn of fermentation ;)

DME would be nice, but not easy to get. Will take far too long.

Saving wort is all fine, except that I want this yeast for the next batch.
Can you succesfully freeze wort by the way?

Anyway, next bottle I drink, I'll add apple juice (as no boiling/cooling etc needed) with a bit of nutrients. I need to check exactly what nutrients as I remember not buying DAP but something with more oomph
Generally, if I drink from a pet bottle, I close the lid/top after pouring (not adding anything( and it carbonates back to pressure in no time. Meaning the yeast is still pretty active.

I've seen and followed the new starter thread, but I don't want to go that far. It's more of a one off thing.
It:s caused by a batch that I didn't trust, so I threw the trub away. Normally I would have pitched on it.

More ideas are welcome and I will report back. I think I got 4 bottles left, so 4 chances ;)
 
Yeast nutrients
IMG_20230124_100027.jpg
 
Ideally for starting from dregs you'd add around 50mL of wort (to provide the maltose) and a very small amount of nutrient to the bottle. Then ferment that for a few days at room temp. Cover with aluminium foil and shake as often as possible. Then do the same with a 500 mL starter, then a 5 litre batch.

I'd do all three steps with wort, but if you've only got sugar and you're going to lose the yeast, don't step up past the first step until you can organise some wort. If you do all the steps with sugar and/or apple juice I've read that it will be far less efficient and may not get decent attenuation if you haven't used maltose in stepping it up. Something to do with preferred pathways for fermentation. No experience myself.

There's no maltose in apple juice, so don't see it having a huge benefit over table sugar. Use whichever is easiest.

People do freeze wort, but I've no idea of how well it works. Others can it for later use. If you do freeze I'd bring it up to 73C, then cool it before using it. Freezing will probably keep it sterile, but not always.
 
Zambezi Special said:
Can you succesfully freeze wort by the way?
Click to expand...

The Dr. that wrote that paper referenced in the New starter thread freezes wort so I'd say that's a qualified source. As for the nutrient you have, use it but it looks really chemically which Dr. Maria says can be too harsh over more organic neut. But if you have multiple opportunities, give it a shot!
 
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