why isn't Priming sugar being added to the total ABV calc

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by dfj, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. dfj

    dfj Active Member

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    I know its not grain but typical 5oz of priming sugar raises abv by .15-.2%
     
  2. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I may be mistaken but that amount is basically negligible. Or at least I would think so in just about everyone's eyes. The amounts you stated are even less than what just about every 'non-alcoholic' beer contains.
     
  3. thehaze

    thehaze Active Member

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    Priming sugar does not increase ABV in the final beer. As pointed above, the amount used is negligible and will not result in a higher ABV. The yeast will eat it all, making bubbles/ CO2 out of it.

    It could increase the ABV if the amount was in fact large enough to make a difference.
     
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  4. dfj

    dfj Active Member

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    0.35ABV from 5 oz corn sugar in a 5 gallon batch.
    So let me get this straight...
    Sugar in the primary or secondary when fermented adds abv
    But sugar added at bottling which re-ferments doesn't add abv?
    It's a minor point but when trying to hit a guideline it matters
     
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  5. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    I also thought that the amount of alcohol increase from the priming sugar was negligible. After someone on another forum pointed out that it did add a very measurable amount I did the math and found that it does indeed. If fermentation in the bottle is producing CO2 it is also producing alcohol.
     
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  6. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Yes, priming sugar will increase the ABV slightly. I am not sure how to add it as a fermentable after fermentation, but we'll see what we can do.

    Generally, about 4 ounces by weight is used. In a 5 gallon batch, that would create .2% ABV. I always considered it a negligible amount, as we're not exactly correct with the ABV anyway with a hydrometer- it's a good estimate but it could easily be off by more than .2% anyway.
     
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  7. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    It’d be a good poll. For my 20+ year brewing career, it’s come up in discussion from time to time. I think most people consider it to be not worth considering.
     
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  8. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    https://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf
    As stated in here the guidelines are just that, guidelines not specifications. if these are the ones you are talking about 2% may take you out of the guidelines but should not really be enough to count against how your beer is judged in a specific category.
    They talk about this in "Introduction to the 2015 Guidelines".

    Just add 4oz of sugar to the recipe would be within probably .05% with efficiency factored in. As you say we aint that close with a hydrometer and its calculations.
     
  9. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiosity, do they actually check for ABV at competitions? You can’t test for ABV after it’s bottled before you submit it anyway. So if you can’t test for ABV until it’s de-capped at judging, how would a brewer be able to know. Having never entered a competition, I could be way out in left field.
     
  10. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    #10 thunderwagn, Feb 4, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    We're talking .15 - .2 here. Not 1 or 2%. There's a big difference. Just as a reference, the 'non-alcoholic' Odoul's is about .4% which is greater than what we are discussing here.
     
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  11. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Nope. There is no way to check the ABV, aside from the "feeling" of taste of alcohol. If a DIPA is entered as a cream ale, that would be noticed but certainly not a small variation in the ABV.
     
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  12. dfj

    dfj Active Member

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    this all started while working on a mild ale at 1.038SG ie 3.7% abv. Adding .35abv would be really noticeable in a mild ale. In an IPA, no one would notice.
     
  13. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    #13 thunderwagn, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
    Where are you getting your .35 number from? I would think if you are diluting your sugar in water first, that number would be lower.
     
  14. dfj

    dfj Active Member

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    I boil 1 cup of water and add sugar. once it cools it goes into the bottling bucket.
    take any recipe you have and add 5 oz to the fermentation to calc new ABV
     
  15. dfj

    dfj Active Member

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    here is my 3.8% abv recipe after i add 5 oz corn sugar
    upload_2018-2-6_6-42-45.png
     
  16. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I think it's going to be different adding diluted sugar to already fermented wort. Adding straight sugar to your ferment will produce differently than adding diluted to an already fermented wort. The amount your bottling sugar raises the abv will be dependent on the fermented wort and what is available which will be different than your original fermentation.
     
  17. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like an experiment is brewing to me. I would expect dextrose to ferment the same whether it was added pre or post fermentation.
     
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  18. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    You may very well be right. I'm interested now and can't find any constant equation or answer lol. It does raise the abv but I'm still sticking to the negligible side of the fence. Even at .35 increase I'd highly doubt a noticable difference. Then again, I'm just guessing as everything I find seems to be opinion based...Ha just like mine
     
  19. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    I’m pretty sure it’s widely regarded as not worth considering. The topic comes up every once in a while in brew talks, but not often at all. I feel safe to say most people don’t care.
     
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  20. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    It won't raise the ABV to quite .35- adding 5 ounces of dextrose (which will completely ferment out) to 5 finished gallons of beer will add 2-3 gravity points for the entire batch. (By the way, that's quite a bit of priming sugar for a mild- you may want to consider a lower carbonation level to be more in style and not so spritzy).

    It will not change the FG, so I think that adding it to the fermentables part makes the software "think" the wort is more fermentable than without it and so it may change the FG.

    I can see it changing the lower OG beers to a more significant amount like in the case of the mild. However, remember that we're only estimating the ABV anyway, and it could easily be different if you were testing it in a lab. We calculate it with a hydrometer that can easily be off by .002-.005, or that our eyes don't see the meniscus exactly, and with the apparent attenuation of the yeast (not the real attenuation), so even with a hydrometer or refractometer it's an estimated ABV and not necessarily accurate.

    Still, I will bring up adding the gravity points adding with priming sugars to the developer and see what we can do to get a better estimation of the priming sugars contribution to ABV.
     
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