Whirlpool vs no whirlpool hops timing

[Mastoras007]

So my recipe requires a last hop addition at 20min after that until now I cold crash the hole pot
Now Im going to use whirlpool 10 min whirlpooling + 10 minutes rest to balance
Whirlpooling
How can I get as much as possible same results?
Thinking to do 5min boil for last addition
What's your opinion?

 

[Minbari]

If you want to whirlpool for 10 minutes and that is usually after flameout.

So just whirlpool for 10 minutes, then chill. Obviously whirlpool is designed for aroma and a little flavor

Just my opinion, dry hopping works just as well and it is easier

 

[J A]

I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting. 20m minute hop addition does a very different thing compared to whirlpooling. Maybe post your recipe and it'll be easier to see what's needed.

 

[Mastoras007]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1505158/blonde-cascade-20

The cold crash time is extended with whirlpool (+20 minutes)
Those 20 minutes wort have 99-100 Celsius so if I drop hopes at 20 minutes they spend about 40 minutes at high temperature before cold crash

 

[Dave Y]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1505158/blonde-cascade-20

The cold crash time is extended with whirlpool (+20 minutes)
Those 20 minutes wort have 99-100 Celsius so if I drop hopes at 20 minutes they spend about 40 minutes at high temperature before cold crash

I think you mean the cool down time(?) Cold crash generally refers to bringing the fermented beer from fermentation down to about 38F or so to drop the particulates out of the beer.

Both your hops indicate "boil"

if you are going to whirlpool, you should make a 3rd hop entry, same amount & AA/IBU, select whirlpool from the drop down and set to 10 minutes. It gives you a rough calculation of IBU based on the temperature you whirlpool the wort at. I've heard from as low as 165F, to as high as 185. I do mine about 175F this way.

at end of boil, I have already submerged an immersion chiller to chill the wort, I turn the heat off, and the let the chiller run until I see about 182F on the temperature on the kettle. I turn the power back on and set to 175, pull the chiller and turn the water off, suspend the chiller. I whirlpool for whatever length of time, put the chiller back in, turn the kettle power off and chill the wort to about 5-10 over ambient. I transfer to the fermenter and put it on a chiller. I've done this a couple times without removing the chiller, but I don't get the whirlpooling I would normally get.

 

[Mastoras007]

Yes i mean the cool time..
You're right,

 

[Mastoras007]

I think you mean the cool down time(?) Cold crash generally refers to bringing the fermented beer from fermentation down to about 38F or so to drop the particulates out of the beer.

Both your hops indicate "boil"
View attachment 34167

if you are going to whirlpool, you should make a 3rd hop entry, same amount & AA/IBU, select whirlpool from the drop down and set to 10 minutes. It gives you a rough calculation of IBU based on the temperature you whirlpool the wort at. I've heard from as low as 165F, to as high as 185. I do mine about 175F this way.

at end of boil, I have already submerged an immersion chiller to chill the wort, I turn the heat off, and the let the chiller run until I see about 182F on the temperature on the kettle. I turn the power back on and set to 175, pull the chiller and turn the water off, suspend the chiller. I whirlpool for whatever length of time, put the chiller back in, turn the kettle power off and chill the wort to about 5-10 over ambient. I transfer to the fermenter and put it on a chiller. I've done this a couple times without removing the chiller, but I don't get the whirlpooling I would normally get.

Why you cool the wort before whirlpool?
I through that wort need to be hot for the cone to be best results

 

[jschein]

Why you cool the wort before whirlpool?
I through that wort need to be hot for the cone to be best results

You will extract more bitterness from the hops at that temperature

 

[Craigerrr]

You would whirlpool at different temperatures and different times to get the results you are looking for. For a Hazy IPA I cool from 100C down to 80C, add the hops, and hold the temperature at 80C for 20 minutes. The balance of bitterness/aroma/flavor you get from the hops will be dependant on the time and temperature of your whirlpool.
What is the recipe indicating for time and temperature?

 

[J A]

Make it simple...There is no need for a whirlpool hop addition here. If you're using a hop bag or spider, remove the hops immediately at flameout and chill as you normally would, If you are using loose hops, cool the wort immediately and quickly at flameout. The function of whirlpooling in a probrewer setting is to concentrate the hops in the center of the bottom of the boil pot so that they won't end up in the fermenter. If you want to add a whirlpool addition, it's separate from all the other hops and will go in after the wort has cooled to below 180F.

 

[Mastoras007]

You would whirlpool at different temperatures and different times to get the results you are looking for. For a Hazy IPA I cool from 100C down to 80C, add the hops, and hold the temperature at 80C for 20 minutes. The balance of bitterness/aroma/flavor you get from the hops will be dependant on the time and temperature of your whirlpool.
What is the recipe indicating for time and temperature?

The recipe is built for no whirlpool, cool direct after flame out
But now I want to use whirlpool, but I want the same beer

 

[Craigerrr]

The recipe is built for no whirlpool, cool direct after flame out
But now I want to use whirlpool, but I want the same beer

Then I don't understand why you are asking

 

[jschein]

The recipe is built for no whirlpool, cool direct after flame out
But now I want to use whirlpool, but I want the same beer

Well if you want to try a whirlpool then add 8 grams of the cascade @ 160F for 20 minutes.
That will add maybe 2 by to the beer

 

[jschein]

Should have said cool the wort to 160F after the boil

 

[J A]

Your question is about calculating IBU contribution when you change from 20 minutes to whirlpool hops.
First off, the style of the recipe is not one that typically uses a whirlpool addition because it's not a particularly hop-forward style.
Second, Cascade alone is not a hop that's typically used in a beer with whirlpool hops additions.
Third, you may accomplish the desired result with less hassle if you simply add a dryhop addition.

If you insist on adding whirlpool, you have to estimate hop IBU contribution so it may take some trial and error to achieve the exact bitterness you want. All you have to do is add a whirlpool addition in the recipe, designate the temperature and time that you'll be using and then adjust your boil additions to change the IBUs. You may have to make a setting to control the IBU contribution factor.

I will say this, with all respect, if you have your brewery business set up and you are still unclear on these basic elements of recipe building and brewing process, maybe it's a good idea to look into hiring a consultant who can help establish your basic recipes and procedures.

 

[Mastoras007]

Your question is about calculating IBU contribution when you change from 20 minutes to whirlpool hops.
First off, the style of the recipe is not one that typically uses a whirlpool addition because it's not a particularly hop-forward style.
Second, Cascade alone is not a hop that's typically used in a beer with whirlpool hops additions.
Third, you may accomplish the desired result with less hassle if you simply add a dryhop addition.

If you insist on adding whirlpool, you have to estimate hop IBU contribution so it may take some trial and error to achieve the exact bitterness you want. All you have to do is add a whirlpool addition in the recipe, designate the temperature and time that you'll be using and then adjust your boil additions to change the IBUs. You may have to make a setting to control the IBU contribution factor.

I will say this, with all respect, if you have your brewery business set up and you are still unclear on these basic elements of recipe building and brewing process, maybe it's a good idea to look into hiring a consultant who can help establish your basic recipes and procedures.

Is not yet ready, i have not yet brew anything, i will brew first batches for testing machines etc.
the question is not about ibus ibu is the eazy part, i need to brew 3-4 or more batches to hit the same aroma and flavour for this recipe, i just dont want to brew 20 batches until i hit those
i dont want dry hop

 

[J A]

Is not yet ready, i have not yet brew anything, i will brew first batches for testing machines etc.
the question is not about ibus ibu is the eazy part, i need to brew 3-4 or more batches to hit the same aroma and flavour for this recipe, i just dont want to brew 20 batches until i hit those
i dont want dry hop

It makes sense if you want extra flavor and aroma to do a whirlpool. It can take the place of dry-hopping to a large extent. Good luck with it!

 

[Mastoras007]

Theanks
I will star with add some magnum and remove cascade from boil.
I will add cascade at 80 Celsius on whirlpool
That's will be first attempt
Second will be move cascade 5 min boil 3rd 10min boil
Meanwhile I will adjust the ibus each time of magnum quantity
That's my plan

 

[J A]

Theanks
I will star with add some magnum and remove cascade from boil.
I will add cascade at 80 Celsius on whirlpool
That's will be first attempt
Second will be move cascade 5 min boil 3rd 10min boil
Meanwhile I will adjust the ibus each time of magnum quantity
That's my plan

Sounds like a very solid plan.

 

[Donoroto]

Theanks
I will star with add some magnum and remove cascade from boil.
I will add cascade at 80 Celsius on whirlpool
That's will be first attempt
Second will be move cascade 5 min boil 3rd 10min boil
Meanwhile I will adjust the ibus each time of magnum quantity
That's my plan

Agree, good plan.