When a recipe says to add hops "0 mins" and what's a whirlpool?

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by Brewer #321532, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. Jonny the Brewer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2020
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi guys

    I do stove top 1 gallon brewing. When a recipe says to add hops at "0 mins" does it mean right at the start or at the end of the boil? If it's the end, then won't the hops literally only infuse into the wort for the amount of time it takes to cool before it's strained out going into the fermenter?

    Similar topic - What's meant by adding hops "whirlpool" in the context of a 1 gallon stovetop homebrew?

    Thanks!

    Jonny
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    6,707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    We always count down when we refer to hop additions so a 60 minute addition would be with 60 minutes to go in the boil. Your zero minute addition would be added when you turn the heat off. Your observation about the hops infusion time is correct and it's what you want: Zero minute additions are made to preserve hop oils that would boil off otherwise.

    Whirlpool might not be applicable in a one-gallon setup if you're straining hops out or dumping everything into a fermentor. To whirlpool your batch, get a spoon and stir. It'll cause the hops to accumulate in the center of the pot. Those of us with big pots who drain off our wort using a spigot use that process to keep hops out of the wort without straining.
     
    Jonny the Brewer likes this.
  3. Jonny the Brewer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2020
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks! Do you whirlpool during the boil then? Or a specific point in time like at the end?

    This raises another question I have whether I strain the wort or chuck the whole lot into the fermentor? For me the hoppier the better so am not keen on straining...
     
  4. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    6,707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Should have mentioned: Whirlpooling starts when you turn the heat off. As to point 2: Try and keep the hop matter out of the fermentor as much as possible. It may cause grassy or vegetal off-flavors and won't add any additional hop flavor or aroma once the wort has been chilled. Straining is a good idea.
     
    BrainYYC and Jonny the Brewer like this.
  5. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    2,997
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Manager
    Location:
    Edmonton
    For comparison, I have a 16G pot and I have never actually gotten a "Whirlpool" to do anything at all to the sediment in the bottom. Basically from a hop perspective it means turn the heat off and put the hops in at the same time, then cool your beer.
     
    Jonny the Brewer likes this.
  6. TetersMillBrewing

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Disclaimer, I am still new to brewing with only about 5 batches of all grain (6 if you count tonight). With my setup I keep my pump running and whirlpool though the entire boil. Then after the boil I whirlpool for about 5 minutes and then off to the fermentor. Every time I have moved from boil kettle to fermentor all the hops and any grain that made it into the boil kettle are neatly set in the center. Not sure if circulating while boiling is "the right way" but I have not had any problems.
     
  7. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    4,701
    Likes Received:
    6,906
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I also use a pump, and start it up with 15 minutes left in the boil. It then runs until cooling is complete. When add whirlpool hops I usually do so at 180F, and let it spin for 10-20 minutes before starting the cooling again. When I drain from my ball valve I have big ass cone of hop debris left in the center of the kettle. You might see some wort there too, but it is accounted for.
    20191027_153210.jpg
     
  8. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,306
    Likes Received:
    1,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Most of this has already been touched on above, but thought the extra detail may help.

    Creating a whirlpool is something that becomes more important the larger your system gets. As you can see from Craig's photo above you can accumulate a lot of crud from the boil and if you try pushing that through all the pipes that may be in your system you may get blockages. So people with larger systems create a whirlpool to force most of the crud into a pile into the middle of the kettle and then run off the wort slowly enough that it doesn't disturb the pile.

    For stove top it's close to pointless. The minute you pick up the kettle and start pouring it into the fermenter your disturbing the pile and it will start pouring out into the fermenter. Though most of it doesn't start coming out until you're near the bottom of the kettle. Then you choose whether to leave the crud in the kettle or pour it into the fermenter. When I did stove top I started out by pouring it all into the fermenter. Then later I'd add an extra 100 ml to the recipe so I could leave most of it behind. Though some crud is helpful to keep your yeast healthy. So don't get too obsessive about keeping all of it out of the fermenter.

    That's just the crud aspect. When people talk about whirlpool hop additions, for stovetop that just means turning off the heat, adding the hops and putting the lid back on and waiting for 10-30 minutes. And if you find your strainer blocking up with the whirlpool hops, you can try bagging them.
     
  9. TetersMillBrewing

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Craigerr, can you expand on this some. Is the cooling based on your equipment? I use a counter flow chiller (I think that is the right term). Normally I come out of the boil, let it whirlpool for 10 or 15 minutes, and then run it though the counter flow chiller into the fermentor. Just curious if I need to add a cool down step after the boil.
     
  10. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes Received:
    9,564
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    When I "Whirlpool" agetate the wort in one direction via mechanical means of spoon /pump.
    I switch off my heat source and chill the wort down to 80c and set temp controller to regulate wort at 80c temp for 20-30mins depending on how rushed I am to wrap up brew day. Then I add my whirlpool hop addition.

    The reason I drop the wort temp to 80c is the aromatic fragile aroma/flavours arnt boiled off more likely infused into the wort at this lower temperature.

    Also adding hops at or below 80c is supposed to be the threshold where the hops are less likely to contribute to the overall bitterness in the beer.

    Those schooled in the science behind it can probably explains the ins and outs more better.
     
    Zambezi Special and Megary like this.
  11. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,306
    Likes Received:
    1,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    There's two main dimensions, time and temp. Higher temps create more iso-alpha acids so make it more bitter. Higher temps will also change the materials that come out of the hops. Higher temps will make the really volatile materials evaporate off more quickly and may also force more less volatile materials out.

    For time, longer will allow the less volatile materials to come out of the hops. The less volatile hops materials tend to give more dank and bitter flavours/aromas. The higher volatile materials include the more fruity flavours/aromas.

    There's no right or wrong, just what you prefer. I've tried different approaches and struggle to notice the difference with temp, but I do prefer shorter hopstands. I'm doing them for around 10 minutes now.
     
    Zambezi Special, Megary and Trialben like this.
  12. BrewPatgonia

    BrewPatgonia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Controls engineer-installations of Gas Turbines
    Location:
    Chile, southern region (de los lagos)
    just a quick note and question @Craigerr, I noticed that both the suction and recirc (whirlpool) tubes point in the same direction on your boil kettle.
    I have them in opposite directions in my BK. I did it this way to facilitate the whirlpool, so that the direction of the lower swirl and the direction of the upper swirl are creating a whirlpool, both forcing the wort around the BK in the same direction.
    ... if this makes sense.
    Have you tried to change the direction of one of the tubes, either the pickup tube or the discharge tube.... to avoid the liquid wort fighting each other in the direction to swirl around the kettle?
    or if I am incorrect with the assesment, I would like to be informed or corrected.

    either way, it appears to be functioning just fine.. you do have a nice pile in the bottom center of the pot.
     
  13. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes Received:
    9,564
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    I saw this and thought ah he's got the intake the same direction of flow to reduce sucking up hops.
     
    BrewPatgonia likes this.
  14. Jonny the Brewer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2020
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you so much guys this is supremely useful and it's great to find an active forum with friendly and knowledgeable people.
     
    BarbarianBrewer and BrainYYC like this.
  15. TetersMillBrewing

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I have mine setup in the same direction and always assumed that was the purpose, to avoid sucking up items in the whirlpool.
     
  16. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    4,701
    Likes Received:
    6,906
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm actually not that smart, and truthfully hadn't put two and two together on that. I arranged the inlet to flow the opposite direction that the water flows through my chiller to help speed cooling. I suppose that it is like a legal argument, you could argue for either theory!
     
  17. BrewPatgonia

    BrewPatgonia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Controls engineer-installations of Gas Turbines
    Location:
    Chile, southern region (de los lagos)
    appears to be working fine, the pile of trub looks contained.
    I have the character flaw... 'can't keep my lips pinched when something appears different than what I imagine it should be'. LOL
    I can understand the ideas being mentioned and can accept them... I think it creates some turbulence and opposition to flow, but nothing significant enough to cause any issues. I just thought I would throw out the question. Thanks, it gives me more things to think about. :)
     
    Craigerrr likes this.
  18. BrewPatgonia

    BrewPatgonia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Controls engineer-installations of Gas Turbines
    Location:
    Chile, southern region (de los lagos)
    'I understood that I had the 'right' to remain silent, but I lacked the 'ability' to remain silent'
    Ron White
     
  19. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    4,701
    Likes Received:
    6,906
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry, missed your question, I use a pair of immersion chllers in tandem, the whirlpool is flowing in the opposite direction that cooling water is running through the coils. Same principal as your counterflow chiller.
     
  20. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    4,701
    Likes Received:
    6,906
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It Saul Goodman!
    For my brew day today I flipped the pickup tube over at the bottom of the kettle, I didn't notice any difference. With the head pressure of 10+ gallons, I doubt that there would be an advantage either way.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white