Trub or No Trub you be the judge.

[GFHomebrew]

That's the way I've been playing it...the break material and any hops that weren't bagged will take up a lot of space in the kettle but under the weight of a few generations of yeast bodies, it compacts into a nice solid layer and gets out of the way of racking clean beer. As regards off flavors, I'm not sure any break material (protiens that are coagulated out of the wort at boiling) will have much of an effect, unless you ended up aging "on the lees" for an extended period. Protein haze or chill haze might be something to think about, but flavors shouldn't be an issue.
Hops transferring to the fermenter could be an issue. I usually use a hop bag except if I'm using Magnum or another high alpha in 1/4 or 1/2 oz at the 60 minute addition - I just don't worry about that.
I just did an IPA and left all the hops loose in the boil and transferred all to the fermenter. I don't think grassy flavors will result from boiled or whirlpooled hops. Dry hops with no high-temp interaction could have a raw, vegetal, grassy flavor, but I think it depends on the hops. To me, nobel hops and varieties described as "earthy" like Saaz or Willamette have a dirt/grass/hay aftertaste in additions less than 10 minutes from FO - those I try to keep out of the fermenter by boiling in a bag.

So your saying JA bag or keep back all Nobel hops such as hellartau, sazz, Spalt that kinda line maybe will have to nock up that hop spider. For your IPAs I haven't brewed one yet but you want your hops going into primary like cascade, Simco, Citra hmmm they don't get grassy I'm sure I remember brulosophers did an exbeerment on this one too.

 

[Mark D Pirate]

True there Mark I see them coopers fermentor don't have an air lock bit as such too hay? Yep the trub comes up to 3 liter mark of fermentor that's tap level on my 30 lt I brew bicket.

The Coopers / Mr Beer Fv doesn't need an airlock , the loose fitting lid is lifted very slightly to allow CO2 to escape if it needs too , once fermentation is finished the headspace is still full of CO2 and being heavier than air will sit there unless you stir it up .
Trub wise i allow 1.2-1.5 litres of loss into the bottling bucket

 

[GFHomebrew]

Yep I saw one of them at a coopers home brewing demo at a local dan merphys up here. That was a few years ago one great thing I got outta that was a great little tool pouch coopers were giving out nifty little set with some jewellers screw drivers a mini tape a shifter and such on ya coopers

 

[Mark D Pirate]

all i ever got free from Coopers was a hangover after drinking a few of the Extra strong vintage ale they put out every year !

was the guy doing the demo named Paul ? He's an admin on the site Coopers run and really does know what he's talking about

 

[J A]

So your saying JA bag or keep back all Nobel hops such as hellartau, sazz, Spalt that kinda line maybe will have to nock up that hop spider. For your IPAs I haven't brewed one yet but you want your hops going into primary like cascade, Simco, Citra hmmm they don't get grassy I'm sure I remember brulosophers did an exbeerment on this one too.

More or less...I tend to bag most hops anyway just to keep everything a little cleaner, but I don't get as concerned about ones that seem to me to be pretty well-behaved. When I use Magnum (very often) it's usually in small enough increments that I don't bother trying to get it in a bag and just throw it in.
One of the main reasons for keeping hops out of the fermenter is that I want to re-use the cake and the extra hop-sludge can impact the flavor of the subsequent pitch. I made the mistake of repitching my Simcoe/Amarillo APA cake on to my Oktoberfest Ale. That beer really shouldn't have tropical fruit in the flavor and aroma.

 

[Nosybear]

Here's the question. Should we be counting the trub in the wort volume? I can't quite wrap my head around this. How much wort is in the space occupied by the trub? It depends on how packed the trub is, of course. I typically end up with about 2" of sediment in my fermenter after fermentation when everything is settled. So does my wort start at the top of the trub? If I had 5 gallons of perfectly clear wort sitting on top of 2" of concrete at the bottom of the fermenter, my carboy would show more than 5 gallons in it, since it's graduated from the bottom of the carboy, not the top of the concrete. How would trub packed as dense as it's going to get compare to that?

No. Think about it this way: It has a volume. The total volume in your fermentor is wort plus trub. The trub is not solid but it has some volume. You don't want to siphon it off into secondary or packaging anyway so it has to be deducted from the total volume in the fermentor.

 

[jeffpn]

I believe you are agreeing with me. Now the question is academic, but let's say you could wave a magic wand and make the trub disappear. Would your wort volume decrease in height by the height of the trub? How much wort can a wort trub hold if a wort trub could hold wort? (Can you believe I have not been drinking today?) Simply put, how much wort is in the same space as the trub? In my earlier concrete example, it'd be none. But in loosely packed sediment, it might hold a lot of wort.

 

[GFHomebrew]

all i ever got free from Coopers was a hangover after drinking a few of the Extra strong vintage ale they put out every year !

was the guy doing the demo named Paul ? He's an admin on the site Coopers run and really does know what he's talking about

not sure of his name I just remembered the no air lock feature and another brewer saying he streaches glad wrap over top of the fermentor and pricks it with a pin that was his way of keeping nasties out

 

[Nosybear]

I believe you are agreeing with me. Now the question is academic, but let's say you could wave a magic wand and make the trub disappear. Would your wort volume decrease in height by the height of the trub? How much wort can a wort trub hold if a wort trub could hold wort? (Can you believe I have not been drinking today?) Simply put, how much wort is in the same space as the trub? In my earlier concrete example, it'd be none. But in loosely packed sediment, it might hold a lot of wort.

The trub does have some wort in it. In the kettle, the trub is mostly protein, both absorbent and particulate, so there's space filled with wort between the protein grains. How much? You could always weigh the carboy, siphon down to the wort line, weigh again (you now have the mass of most of the wort), dry out the trub and see how much water you lost, convert the water to volume and that would be the amount of wort bound up in the trub. Multiply it by the specific gravity if you want more accuracy. Ain't worth the trouble for me, I'll deal with the loss. Grudgingly. I hate to leave beer in the kettle (or fermentor for that matter).

 

[Mark D Pirate]

The other factor in losses would be yeast strain , I do prefer high floccing yeast as it translates to crystal clear beer without finings or extended cold crashing but some styles should be served cloudy so I either avoid those or just deal with it

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

The other factor in losses would be yeast strain , I do prefer high flocculating yeast as it translates to crystal clear beer without finings or extended cold crashing but some styles should be served cloudy so I either avoid those or just deal with it

I'm with you there, although Ive had a kick lately of US05 and cold crashing for 7 days for certain types of beer lately but my go to yeast is high flocculating

one thing Ive noticed with the chicho strain is excess gas in the morning

 

[Nosybear]

The other factor in losses would be yeast strain , I do prefer high floccing yeast as it translates to crystal clear beer without finings or extended cold crashing but some styles should be served cloudy so I either avoid those or just deal with it

But finings, like gelatin, really pack the trub down so I end up with less losses in the lagers I fine than in the ales I leave cloudy. Chill haze is completely aesthetic so if I'm not serving the beer to the general public or having a judge evaluate it, I don't bother. Highly flocculant yeasts pack down nicely too, so there's less loss. But I'm confused here: Are we talking about trub in the kettle or trub in the fermentor?

 

[J A]

But I'm confused here: Are we talking about trub in the kettle or trub in the fermentor?

Yeah...there seems to be a little cross-over. Yeast trub obviously gets left in the fermenter at the end of fermentation. Kettle-trub (I just call that break material and hop sludge) is a different consideration. It takes up room in the fermenter from the beginning if you transfer it, but gets compressed by the action of floc-ing and settling yeast.
Independent of kettle trub/break material, different yeast strains produce more or less trub in the form of dead and dormant yeast bodies just by the nature of their reproduction rate and how well they tend to drop out and get compressed.
It seems that the original question/poll is specific to kettle trub going into the fermenter.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Trub in fermentor/suspected off flavours.? Your experiences

 

[Mark D Pirate]

yeah , we wandered off topic a bit mea culpa

 

[GFHomebrew]

any one had any experience with sandiego super yeast wlp090 that is a supped up version of wlp001
It ferments quick and flocs quick. Turn around ale grain to glass two weeks. Brulosopher raves about it . Personally nice ultra clean quick fermentation and clears quick enough but temp range is limited but it t is an ale yeast. Anyways yep off topic need to get a favourite yeast thread going eh? Maybe a poll on favourite lager yeasts and ale yeasts yep that will open Pandora's box

 

[GFHomebrew]

i hope she's good looking.