Subjectiveness of Beer Judging

to each his own beer is say! to each his/her own beer;)! if your happy with making beer and enjoying it with family and friends or wish to enter competition's for feedback on ya beer it all narrows down to finding enjoyment and happiness from the brewing hobby.
Can't argue with that.
 
Can't argue with that.
indeed , not everyone is quite as obsessed as i am ( lucky buggers ) .
within my circles of friends there's non brewers and non beer nerds and even a few who don't drink beer .
I don't care about trophies, I have a box full in the shed from sports and building awards but I do care about producing the highest quality product I possibly can whether it be a beer , a house or restoring a classic car
 
I have a bunch of friends who ask me to brew batches for them or ask to brew with me for kegs they bought for themselves because I have gear. It's not a guarantee my beer is any good but I'll take it as an indication as they're buying materials to have me make more batches rather than brewing their own.
 
... And by the way, so far your argumentation about the 25% fall into the "n=1" trap my friends at Brulosophy so often find themselves in. You cite one observation, have you gone back and looked at others to see if the grand masters are closer? Was the observation you made an exception rather than the rule?
I just grabbed the March/April 2017 issue of Zymurgy magazine and the same section “Commercial Calibration” reviewed a couple other commercial beers and without putting together a spreadsheet like I did the first time, the same disparities exist there as well. For example:

Odell Brewing Conpany’s Drumroll APA.
Aroma description:

Grandmaster Dave House: “... fruity esters are a collage of pear, apple, orange and mango”

Grand Master Sandy Cokerham: “...peach, Mango and a burst of strawberry”

Grand Master Scott Bickham: “... high pine and citrus notes... followed by green pepper notes”

Grand Master Gordon Strong: “... not very fruity, ...mostly piney and grassy”

Again, if this was a beer that I brewed and this is their collective assessments, how would I adjust.

I find it confusing, especially with a section titled as “Commercial Calibration”.

I agree with the others above, and as I have also stated, to each his own.... whether we’re brewing for friends and family or seeking swag.
 
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Well I got the paper copies of the results and one thing I've seen numerous times is the beer being "spicy" which I actually have noticed myself. I personally kind of like it but I can gather it doesn't represent the beer type. I'm not entirely sure how I got that flavour in the beer so consistently, thoughts?
 
I've started recently. It's entirely possible I'm using to much. I've also noticed the beers they made the comments with were primarily ones I used a witbier yeast for, which is apparently potentially expected.
 
yes some yeast will do that too, always balance Gypsum with some Calcium chloride, on mild beers I go 50/50, hoppy 70/30, malty 30/70
 
The numbers I'm using care from yegbierfrau.ca/resources/Knowledge_Base/Edmonton Water Chemistry Simplified.pdf

Which is numbers for the city from our brew guilds education instructor.
5 gallon batch - bitter
1/2tsp lactic
1tsp gypsum
1/2tsp cacl
1tsp epsom in keg
1/4tsp table salt in keg
 
I just grabbed the March/April 2017 issue of Zymurgy magazine and the same section “Commercial Calibration” reviewed a couple other commercial beers and without putting together a spreadsheet like I did the first time, the same disparities exist there as well. For example:

Odell Brewing Conpany’s Drumroll APA.
Aroma description:

Grandmaster Dave House: “... fruity esters are a collage of pear, apple, orange and mango”

Grand Master Sandy Cokerham: “...peach, Mango and a burst of strawberry”

Grand Master Scott Bickham: “... high pine and citrus notes... followed by green pepper notes”

Grand Master Gordon Strong: “... not very fruity, ...mostly piney and grassy”

Again, if this was a beer that I brewed and this is their collective assessments, how would I adjust.

I find it confusing, especially with a section titled as “Commercial Calibration”.

I agree with the others above, and as I have also stated, to each his own.... whether we’re brewing for friends and family or seeking swag.

This is weird, but I'm actually very good friends with one of those, and good acquaintances with two others.

And since there are fairly disparate (not very fruity and fruity), you can sort of read it and when you sample that beer, see what you pick up. Since two especially mentioned mango, and three mentioned citrus, you can take out of that there are citrus and tropical fruit notes. I've judged personally with two of them, and the two I have judged with are fantastic judges.

I judged a commercial competition last year with Sandy, and while some of our comments were a little different, without discussion our scores were always within 3-5 points of each other. Aroma is one of the toughest- because our olfactory "memories" sometimes don't recognize the same aroma as a specific thing. I might get "fruity", but you might get mango. I might get green pepper, but you may think more tangerine, they way some people think coriander smells and tastes soapy.

To me, that's pretty understandable. Look instead at the comments on flavor and overall impression, and at the total score. I think that it's unfair to expect everybody to pick up mango the same way, or citrusy, or whatever. Some things are the same, but sometimes our olfactory system is not wired the same way.
 
The numbers I'm using care from yegbierfrau.ca/resources/Knowledge_Base/Edmonton Water Chemistry Simplified.pdf

Which is numbers for the city from our brew guilds education instructor.
5 gallon batch - bitter
1/2tsp lactic
1tsp gypsum
1/2tsp cacl
1tsp epsom in keg
1/4tsp table salt in keg

That can be a lot of sulfate- depending on what you're making. And depending on the water make up, it could be too much magnesium.
 
This is weird, but I'm actually very good friends with one of those, and good acquaintances with two others.

And since there are fairly disparate (not very fruity and fruity), you can sort of read it and when you sample that beer, see what you pick up. Since two especially mentioned mango, and three mentioned citrus, you can take out of that there are citrus and tropical fruit notes. I've judged personally with two of them, and the two I have judged with are fantastic judges.

I judged a commercial competition last year with Sandy, and while some of our comments were a little different, without discussion our scores were always within 3-5 points of each other. Aroma is one of the toughest- because our olfactory "memories" sometimes don't recognize the same aroma as a specific thing. I might get "fruity", but you might get mango. I might get green pepper, but you may think more tangerine, they way some people think coriander smells and tastes soapy.

To me, that's pretty understandable. Look instead at the comments on flavor and overall impression, and at the total score. I think that it's unfair to expect everybody to pick up mango the same way, or citrusy, or whatever. Some things are the same, but sometimes our olfactory system is not wired the same way.
Although the Aroma/flavor descriptors were what seemed to me as fairly diverse, and good point about a collective "citrus and tropical fruit notes", the judges scoring was a lot closer than their descriptors, so the scoring is consistent. Which is good for those winning medals as the scoring appears to be less subjective.
 
Reading this thread with interest and made me think of seeing the show "Beerland" and watching the 'panel' test the beers for final judgement and was wondering how beer judges clean their tastebuds between beers? I am assuming this happens so each new beer gets a fresh tasting without being muddled by the last beer. Is it as simple as a rinse with water between beers, or something more ??? Just curious:)
 
interesting that it's to much, it definitely is worth my trying different amounts. I'm getting more comfortable with water chemistry so I may actually mess with it again. Though just for example our city water puts out pretty good daily reports.

upload_2018-3-16_9-24-47.png


The monthly reports are a bit behind but pretty detailed.

upload_2018-3-16_9-25-11.png
 
Reading this thread with interest and made me think of seeing the show "Beerland" and watching the 'panel' test the beers for final judgement and was wondering how beer judges clean their tastebuds between beers? I am assuming this happens so each new beer gets a fresh tasting without being muddled by the last beer. Is it as simple as a rinse with water between beers, or something more ??? Just curious:)
Oyster crackers, usually.
 
Oh and sniffing your sleeve between beers helps reset the nose.
 
In a totally take credit where it probably isn't due, I got 3rd for an IPA on my 3rd ever attempt at entering a contest!
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Take it where you can get it, and congratulations!
 

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