Steeping grain Poll

[Brew Cat]

I should stop triggering people but here's a new poll for @Sunfire96 about what you do and why.
Extract brewers may have better answers
I usually toss them in with the lot when I crush but am thinking of changing my method at least for darker brews

 

[Sunfire96]

The only time I don't mash with a specialty malt in an all grain batch is if I withhold the roasted/dark malts for black lagers or black IPAs. "Cap the mash" if you will.

Last few black lagers I've just done it all together so, I suppose my vote is useless lol

 

[Brew Cat]

well then you leave them in for the whole boil? I'm looking for any benefit of steeping them separate and add them at the end of the boil
this is what Sam Caligione recommends in a book I'm browsing

 

[Minbari]

Not making my day longer, it mashes with base grain

 

[J A]

The only time I don't mash with a specialty malt in an all grain batch is if I withhold the roasted/dark malts for black lagers or black IPAs. "Cap the mash" if you will.

That^^^ I usually add roasted barley late in the mash when I do an Irish Stout. Otherwise, everything goes in for the full ride. I utilize late addition steeped malts when I'm doing split batches but only to keep things separate.

 

[Sunfire96]

well then you leave them in for the whole boil? I'm looking for any benefit of steeping them separate and add them at the end of the boil
this is what Sam Caligione recommends in a book I'm browsing

I've never heard of adding them for any part of the boil. 212'F is too hot for grains

 

[Brew Cat]

I believe he says make a tea with 2 quarts of 160° brewing water l and add that at flameout
I'm going to reread it and maybe try
I don't think it will add any time to the brew d

 

[Brew Cat]

https://brulosophy.com/2017/12/04/r...ld-steeping-vs-full-mash-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

Personally, because I do single-vessel BIAB, I cap the mash when using grains over 200°L. This causes me to adjust my acid a bit as if the mash where for a lighter beer, because for the conversion part, it is. That isn't difficult though.

One of my buddies has a 10+gal 2-vessel system where they mash full-volume, but runoff to a separate boil kettle. We have experimented with steeping the grains in the kettle during that runoff rather than capping. They've also done cold steeps the night before and added it to the boil. I don't think we noticed any difference with any of those methods, but all of them reduce harshness compared to mashing those grains from the start.

So I'm guessing the method doesn't matter, so choose what you like or what works for your system, but doing one does make a difference.

We've never considered or experimented with holding back *all* non-base grains. I would think that would just reduce expected gravity since they won't get to be converted by the base.

 

[Megary]

Everything goes in for the full mash. For one, I brew with my house well water and dark grains help with my mash pH. Two, it's easier for me to just mill all grains together and add in one step. Three, I will adjust my grain choices or percentages if I find any harshness that needs tamping down.

 

[Brew Cat]

Well I've thrown the steeping bag into the kettle while the wort is heating and also did it full mash
And yes you can cut down on the grains when doing full mash but then you'll cut back on the flavor
I want to add more grain not less
How do we get there
I was up last night reading something
I didn't save it
But the experiment was between
Full mash- warm steep- cold steep
Full mash was the harshest but cold steep the smoothest but at the cost of some flavor

 

[Brew Cat]

One method not discussed is added on the back end when chilling during the whirlpool
again I'm not advocating anyone change their system just a discussion
I know some get defensive about their way but I guess that's pretty common in everything

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

Well I've thrown the steeping bag into the kettle while the wort is heating and also did it full mash
And yes you can cut down on the grains when doing full mash but then you'll cut back on the flavor
I want to add more grain not less
How do we get there

NEM - Non-Enzymatic Mashing

So essentially the cold steep method, but not just for adjuncts or dark grains - for the entire grain bill.

Then take that wort and use it in a duplicate grain bill as the strike water.

Of course you don't have to double the grain bill entirely, maybe you just use base malt the first time, or the second. The idea is how to increase flavor but not ABV. This would allow you that option *and* be easier to fit in a limited mash tun.

At least that is the theory, I've yet to try it.

Alternatively, keep that mash together, toss in more grains the next morning and raise to conversion.

Effect of that 2nd option is allegedly full-flavored low ABV.

 

[Megary]

Full mash was the harshest but cold steep the smoothest but at the cost of some flavor

I think, assuming the exact same grain bill, this is very likely true. But, since I like to full mash, it's up to me to reduce any harsh flavors by adjusting grains and percentages until any perceived harshness is gone. For example, my Stout recipe has been adjusted over the years and I have found that Carafa malts are my friend. I love Roasted Barley, but I can't get all my "black" from it alone.

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

One method not discussed is added on the back end when chilling during the whirlpool
again I'm not advocating anyone change their system just a discussion
I know some get defensive about their way but I guess that's pretty common in everything

I'd think that would require a pre-boil & chill step just for that addition, but if it floats the boat...

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

I think, assuming the exact same grain bill, this is very likely true. But, since I like to full mash, it's up to me to reduce any harsh flavors by adjusting grains and percentages until any perceived harshness is gone. For example, my Stout recipe has been adjusted over the years and I have found that Carafa malts are my friend. I love Roasted Barley, but I can't get all my "black" from it alone.

Midnight Wheat is the winner for Black without Roast.

 

[Brew Cat]

I

NEM - Non-Enzymatic Mashing

So essentially the cold steep method, but not just for adjuncts or dark grains - for the entire grain bill.

Then take that wort and use it in a duplicate grain bill as the strike water.

Of course you don't have to double the grain bill entirely, maybe you just use base malt the first time, or the second. The idea is how to increase flavor but not ABV. This would allow you that option *and* be easier to fit in a limited mash tun.

At least that is the theory, I've yet to try it.

Alternatively, keep that mash together, toss in more grains the next morning and raise to conversion.

Effect of that 2nd option is allegedly full-flavored low ABV.

I've mashed in cold then stepped up but never an overnight cold mash step
Interesting
I'm still curious about the late in the boil tea addition since you wouldn't be evaporating any of the tea liquid

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

I mash-in 'luke warm' (about 100℉) and slow ramp all the way to the mid-160s, holding there if needed to finish. I'm planning to try 'cold' or 75–85℉ which is my groundwater temp most months and then slow-ramping. The idea is to see if traversing the Maltase range will have a noticeable effect. (even if it doesn't, as long as the beer isn't negatively affected, I'll likely switch to this from now on to save time and propane.)

I'll check with my brewing buddies to see if they've done late kettle steep additions. I know they've done them early, but possible they did some late too.

 

[NorthCoastBrewer]

Extract brewers may have better answers

or exBEERiments that one can try:

1: steep (however one would like) 1# crystal malt in 1 gal. Pasteurize or boil. Ferment with US-05. Measure FG.

2: repeat with 1# roasted malt (perhaps a Chocolate 350L).

3: variation on 1 & 2 using a light munich (~ 10L, 50+ DP): in 1 gal water, add 1# munich to 1 gal water. Heat to 155F (over say 20 minutes), then hold one hour. Measure SG and wort temperature every 15 minutes.

4: cold steep roasted malts: cold steep for 45 minutes, stir every 5 to 10 minutes. Observe color & measure SG every 5 to 10 minutes.

5: variation on #3 using base malt: 1# base malt, 1 gal water; cold steep for 1 hour. stir every 15 minutes, measure SG. Remove grains, heat to 155F, measure OG. Hold at 155F for one hour, measure OG every 15 minutes.

If one has a pH meter, consider measuring pH and comparing actuals to estimates.

With 3 & 5, consider finding a way make a beer with the wort.

 

[Brew Cat]

or exBEERiments that one can try:

1: steep (however one would like) 1# crystal malt in 1 gal. Pasteurize or boil. Ferment with US-05. Measure FG.

2: repeat with 1# roasted malt (perhaps a Chocolate 350L).

3: variation on 1 & 2 using a light munich (~ 10L, 50+ DP): in 1 gal water, add 1# munich to 1 gal water. Heat to 155F (over say 20 minutes), then hold one hour. Measure SG and wort temperature every 15 minutes.

4: cold steep roasted malts: cold steep for 45 minutes, stir every 5 to 10 minutes. Observe color & measure SG every 5 to 10 minutes.

5: variation on #3 using base malt: 1# base malt, 1 gal water; cold steep for 1 hour. stir every 15 minutes, measure SG. Remove grains, heat to 155F, measure OG. Hold at 155F for one hour, measure OG every 15 minutes.

If one has a pH meter, consider measuring pH and comparing actuals to estimates.

With 3 & 5, consider finding a way make a beer with the wort.

Just add it to the end of the boil or finished beer
But what would be the reason to ferment other than data