Saranac Strawberry Tart Clone attempt

SabreSteve

SabreSteve

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So I'm not looking to brew this till closer to the summer but for a while I've thought about trying to clone a Saranac Strawberry Tart. It's one of my favorite seasonal offerings from my favorite NY brewery and it happens to be the only beer that my wife who isn't a beer drinker really happens to like. I figure if I time it right I can have it ready for our 10th anniversary in August. I have the recipe here:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1116976/saranac-strawberry-tart-clone-attempt

I realize the difficulty in accurately cloning a commerical beer so I should say what I'm really looking for is an easy drinking wheat beer with a good balance of sweet and sour and good strawberry flavor. It'll be my first time doing a kettle sour and also my first time adding fruit. I was thinking about adding thawed and sliced/smashed strawberries in secondary for the fruit flavor. Decided on US-05 because I want a relatively clean finish. I choose Saaz for the hops because I want roughly 12 IBUs of bitterness with either no or very delicate hop flavor and I didn't want to buy 1 oz of a higher AA hop and only use .25oz. Ofcourse it occurs to me now, but didn't at 1 AM when I was in bed working on this, that I could just add a higher AA hop at 30 minutes instead. So I'm open to suggestions on that.

My only other concern is carrying a kettle with around 7 gallons of wort to the basement to chill and then to sour and then having to carry it back upstairs to boil again only to carry it back down to chill and pitch. So I might consider scaling it down to 3-4 gallons instead of my usual 5. I did up my target volume for the fermenter though from 5 to 5.5 because I'm assuming I might lose some beer to the strawberries either though absorption or because of debris/trub at the bottom of secondary. Either way I got some time to figure that part out. Curious what you all think?
 
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Sorry man! I got nothin!
The closest I have to adding fruit is dried tangerine bits late boil addition, and pure cranberry juice at packaging. Haven't done a wheat though I may one day, and have never, and will never do a sour...
I am sure you will get entry of good advice here though :D
 
Craigerrr said:
Sorry man! I got nothin!
The closest I have to adding fruit is dried tangerine bits late boil addition, and pure cranberry juice at packaging. Haven't done a wheat though I may one day, and have never, and will never do a sour...
I am sure you will get entry of good advice here though :D
Click to expand...
No sour IPAs for you?
 
Consider a pound of rice hulls with all that wheat and oats; if you recirculate it'll get good and stuck without it.

Never had the Saranac Strawberry so I don't know how 'wheaty' it is. If it's not very bready/yeasty/banana-y (=Estery) then US05 is probably fine. If it IS estery, then get a weitzen yeast like WLP300 (there are many choices) to bring that out.

Frozen strawberries are a great idea, easy to mush up and very flavorful.
 
Donoroto said:
Consider a pound of rice hulls with all that wheat and oats; if you recirculate it'll get good and stuck without it.

Never had the Saranac Strawberry so I don't know how 'wheaty' it is. If it's not very bready/yeasty/banana-y (=Estery) then US05 is probably fine. If it IS estery, then get a weitzen yeast like WLP300 (there are many choices) to bring that out.

Frozen strawberries are a great idea, easy to mush up and very flavorful.
Click to expand...
Don't recall a lot of esters, atleast not the banana forward profile I'd expect from a weizen yeast. I have used WLP300 as I did make an attempt at an extract here but the grain bill just wasn't right. I would say it's a atleast a little wheaty if I recall. It's really kinda hard when you have to try and recreate it from memory without the beer in front of you.

I'm all BIAB so I think I'm all good on the rice hulls. I'm just hoping overall to get somewhat close and then I can tweak from there
 
Everything looks fine to me, except for the one thing I haven't done and lots of people say is really difficult, getting the strawberry flavour out of strawberries. Maybe have an extract ready to dose at packaging if the real thing doesn't work?

I don't bother with hops during the boil for my lacto sours. Just bring the wort up to 80C, chill down to just below 40C, add the lacto, give it 24-48 hours, bring the wort back up to 80C, chill it down to 18C, add the sacch. The US05 will take longer to start than you're used to, but it will start. Generally I'll dry hop near the end of fermentation (I much prefer hop flavours to fruit flavours in my quick sours). If you do want the hops in the boil, maybe save it for the boil after the lacto phase, that way you don't have to worry about killing off the lacto with too many hops.

What's your heat source for the souring phase? If it's a heat belt, bring it upstairs for the souring? Or buy one just for these beers (assuming you can get one to go around your kettle)? So your smaller batch makes more sense. You can do an ice bath to chill and use a heat belt to keep the lacto happy. That way nothing goes downstairs until you take your fermenter down.

My recipe for these is pretty similar - https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/675747/tiny-wild. I find the lactic acid in the beer more than makes up for the lack of boil hops or the lack of alcohol.
 
Mark Farrall said:
Everything looks fine to me, except for the one thing I haven't done and lots of people say is really difficult, getting the strawberry flavour out of strawberries. Maybe have an extract ready to dose at packaging if the real thing doesn't work?

I don't bother with hops during the boil for my lacto sours. Just bring the wort up to 80C, chill down to just below 40C, add the lacto, give it 24-48 hours, bring the wort back up to 80C, chill it down to 18C, add the sacch. The US05 will take longer to start than you're used to, but it will start. Generally I'll dry hop near the end of fermentation (I much prefer hop flavours to fruit flavours in my quick sours). If you do want the hops in the boil, maybe save it for the boil after the lacto phase, that way you don't have to worry about killing off the lacto with too many hops.

What's your heat source for the souring phase? If it's a heat belt, bring it upstairs for the souring? Or buy one just for these beers (assuming you can get one to go around your kettle)? So your smaller batch makes more sense. You can do an ice bath to chill and use a heat belt to keep the lacto happy. That way nothing goes downstairs until you take your fermenter down.

My recipe for these is pretty similar - https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/675747/tiny-wild. I find the lactic acid in the beer more than makes up for the lack of boil hops or the lack of alcohol.
Click to expand...
Interesting because if I went without a boil I could cut down the mash volume by roughly a gallon making the kettle a bit lighter. The main thing though for me is that with this particular recipe I'm looking for just a touch of bitterness without really any hop flavor or aroma. Also am I going to have to worry about DMS with pilsner malt if I don't boil?

Oops didn't mean to hit post yet but I'll add below...
 
There are a few reasons I would take it downstairs to chill the wort and then add sour.
First my chiller hooks up to my basement laundry sink but not my kitchen sink. I could do an ice bath although my license l kitchen sink is a bit undersized for it.
Secondly though I have a pretty small kitchen and I'm not sure I can convince my wife to let me keep my kettle on the stove top or counter top for 2-3 days.
Third I'm quite positive that if it's not up on the kitchen stove that anywhere else I put it other than the basement or my bedroom closet (which also includes a flight of stairs) that my toddler will get into it.

Like I said though I have atleast a couple months to figure that part out so maybe I can leave it in the kitchen. If I need to add heat I'll use a heat belt but if I'm going to keep it upstairs in the summer maybe I won't need it. My wife gets pretty stingy about running the AC in the summer
 
SabreSteve said:
Interesting because if I went without a boil I could cut down the mash volume by roughly a gallon making the kettle a bit lighter. The main thing though for me is that with this particular recipe I'm looking for just a touch of bitterness without really any hop flavor or aroma. Also am I going to have to worry about DMS with pilsner malt if I don't boil?

Oops didn't mean to hit post yet but I'll add below...
Click to expand...
For sure a good idea for hops after your lacto stage. They don't play nice typically. Good belly mango flavored is an excellent source for the lacto and won't impart flavor like you may think. Widely used.
I second having something on hand to help the strawberry flavor. Amoretti makes some nice stuff.
To be honest, I use extract on my sours anymore. The wheat extract is great and I heat just to about boiling point and cut it. Grains are cheaper, but sometimes time is worth more. Just a thought for ya.
 
thunderwagn said:
For sure a good idea for hops after your lacto stage. They don't play nice typically. Good belly mango flavored is an excellent source for the lacto and won't impart flavor like you may think. Widely used.
I second having something on hand to help the strawberry flavor. Amoretti makes some nice stuff.
To be honest, I use extract on my sours anymore. The wheat extract is great and I heat just to about boiling point and cut it. Grains are cheaper, but sometimes time is worth more. Just a thought for ya.
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Yeah I was planning on hopping after the lacto stage if I didn't make that clear. Sorry. Not sure what Good Belly is. Had thought about getting the lacto from yogurt or something but for my first attempt I thought I'd play it safe and go with a commerical blend
 
I've done two kettle sour batches, one was great and the other was dumped. The dumper was most likely because the wort was accidentally oxygenated before pitching my lacto. I would advise against carrying your wort, if you can avoid it, so that it does not slosh around. I was also more successful with a kettle that JUST held the volume at boiling, this way after the wort chilled and I pitched the lacto, I could completely seal the top with clingwrap (again, oxygen and lacto = bad).

I used Swanson L. plantarum probiotic capsules available on Amazon. One capsule was sufficient for my 1 gallon batch (open up the capsule with sanitized, dry hands and pour the contents into the wort). I pitched at 95-100F, then used a Coleman cooler as a fermentation chamber filled with warmed towels/blankets to keep it as close to 90F for 24-48 hours.
 
Sunfire96 said:
I've done two kettle sour batches, one was great and the other was dumped. The dumper was most likely because the wort was accidentally oxygenated before pitching my lacto. I would advise against carrying your wort, if you can avoid it, so that it does not slosh around. I was also more successful with a kettle that JUST held the volume at boiling, this way after the wort chilled and I pitched the lacto, I could completely seal the top with clingwrap (again, oxygen and lacto = bad).

I used Swanson L. plantarum probiotic capsules available on Amazon. One capsule was sufficient for my 1 gallon batch (open up the capsule with sanitized, dry hands and pour the contents into the wort). I pitched at 95-100F, then used a Coleman cooler as a fermentation chamber filled with warmed towels/blankets to keep it as close to 90F for 24-48 hours.
Click to expand...
So if I do a full volume mash I should transfer the wort to a slightly smaller kettle? With my 10 gallon kettle I'll have several inches of headspace with 6.5 gallons of wort.

Now I'm wondering if @thunderwagn is right and I should just do a small boil with extract and then top up with water before pitching US-05?
 
SabreSteve said:
Interesting because if I went without a boil I could cut down the mash volume by roughly a gallon making the kettle a bit lighter. The main thing though for me is that with this particular recipe I'm looking for just a touch of bitterness without really any hop flavor or aroma. Also am I going to have to worry about DMS with pilsner malt if I don't boil?

Oops didn't mean to hit post yet but I'll add below...
Click to expand...
The precursor for DMS doesn't really kick in until above 80C. You get pasteurisation at around 70C fairly quickly. So I should update that recipe to say bring up to 70C for a few minutes. At that temp, next to no DMS precursor will be created, so no need to boil it off. Bunch more technical details here.

Sunfire96 said:
I've done two kettle sour batches, one was great and the other was dumped. The dumper was most likely because the wort was accidentally oxygenated before pitching my lacto. I would advise against carrying your wort, if you can avoid it, so that it does not slosh around. I was also more successful with a kettle that JUST held the volume at boiling, this way after the wort chilled and I pitched the lacto, I could completely seal the top with clingwrap (again, oxygen and lacto = bad).

I used Swanson L. plantarum probiotic capsules available on Amazon. One capsule was sufficient for my 1 gallon batch (open up the capsule with sanitized, dry hands and pour the contents into the wort). I pitched at 95-100F, then used a Coleman cooler as a fermentation chamber filled with warmed towels/blankets to keep it as close to 90F for 24-48 hours.
Click to expand...

It's really hard to cause lacto to throw the off flavours from oxygen metabolism. You need to starve it of food before it will switch over to oxygen metabolism. I'm guessing your probiotic had more than just lactobacillus in it and that's what threw the off flavours. Some of the other micro fauna are terrible in oxygen. That's why grain based souring is such a tricky thing. Again more chemistry here.

I'd be guessing that the Omega blend should be reliably clean. I use an Australian (well Japanese originally) product called Yakult, similar to Goodbelly. Haven't had a problem yet. I've tried the priobiotic pills and no off flavours, but I just didn't like the taste, but I've heard a few other people have problems like yours Sunfire.
 
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SabreSteve said:
SNow I'm wondering if @thunderwagn is right and I should just do a small boil with extract and then top up with water before pitching US-05?
Click to expand...

Makes it a really quick brew day and no chance of DMS.

And for the heat, I find the lacto I use, creates more acid the warmer it is. I'm sure that's strain specific though.
 
SabreSteve said:
So if I do a full volume mash I should transfer the wort to a slightly smaller kettle? With my 10 gallon kettle I'll have several inches of headspace with 6.5 gallons of wort.

Now I'm wondering if @thunderwagn is right and I should just do a small boil wit
Click to expand...
Mark Farrall said:
Makes it a really quick brew day and no chance of DMS.

And for the heat, I find the lacto I use, creates more acid the warmer it is. I'm sure that's strain specific though.
Click to expand...

It does make for a pretty quick brew day and I've been nothing but pleased with the results. Wheat and pilsen malt extracts are great also.
I don't really bother boiling either. I cut the heat just as it gets to that point. You could boil for a minute or two if you like, but not necessary.

There's no shame at all doing extract brews and it works great for sours. Grain is however cheaper.
 
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