Saisonish

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by FreddieFred, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. FreddieFred

    FreddieFred New Member

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    My fourth brew, first attempt at a Saison, first attempt at the recipe calculator and, hopefully, also the first time to use a fermentation chamber.

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1012547/saisonish

    I'm using a Grainfather but going for a bit below its 23 litre capacity to make the beer a bit stronger.
    Not sure on mashing and boiling for only 60 minutes because of all the Pilsner.

    Thanks for comments.
     
  2. ^Tony^

    ^Tony^ Active Member

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    I've never used a Grainfather but I have made saisons. I love them. You can do just about anything to them and still get a pretty nice beer. So here is my opinion (FWIW): your recipe looks pretty good.

    If you want the coriander and hops to stand out the grain bill looks ok. To add a little colour and some caramel/sweeter flavor consider adding some cara or similar. My favorite is honey malt.

    I'd ferment way warmer. Safale BE-134 says ideal fermentation is 18-28°C (64.4-82.4°F). Saisons are about the yeast funk which can be obtained better by fermenting warm. I'd start at 18-20 for the pitch and as soon as the fermentation is roaring I'd increase the the temp by a few degrees each day until you get to the 28 or even 29 range then hold it for a week or so, then naturally let the temperature drop to what it wants to in order to stress the yeast and get some of the funk. That said, I've never used BE-134. Your temp plan should give some yeast flavor but if your looking for more bang for your effort I'd go higher.

    I'd reduce the hop additions, especially the 60 minute. Try 20 g instead. Your grain bill is pretty light ('L wise) and the hop addition may stand out more than you want. But, some folks (including me) like a hoppy saison sometimes, so ignore this part if you like hoppy.

    25 g coriander will be very noticeable, maybe even overwhelming unless you have a stronger malt profile. I usually use about 7 - 10 g lightly cracked in a 6 gallon batch and that is more than enough for me. Very noticeable to my palate. I do like 14 - 20 g of citrus peel added in the last 15 minutes of the boil or dry hopped...but that's just me. You could also add some rose hips or even some heather flower (AKA:Calluna vulgaris) which I think gives a nice compliment to the saison funk. I had a Quebec saison with a floral profile from heather flower and mandarin orange peel and OMG was it good! Unfortunately I forget the name of it. :( If your not sure about the citrus or other additions you could take a taste sample when the fermentation is completed and dry hop with any of the spices and herbs you can get.

    You don't have a mash temp listed. I'd go for a low mash temp. 148-152 to try for a really fermentable beer which would help with the ABV (saisons should be dry to finish) and the thinner mouth feel. I try for an iced tea kind of mouthfeel in my saisons.

    Good luck and enjoy! Saisons are just plain fun. They are such a varied style you really can't really screw them up.
     
  3. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    I normally use around 10% flaked corn or honey to keep the body of the saison a bit lighter. I might be inclined to substitute the corn or honey in for some of the pilsner malt. I like the wheat addition. I also like The OG target. There has been a trend of heavier saisons, but I prefer the lighter versions.

    The BE-134 is a nice yeast, although I use it more for heavier Belgian styles. It adds a nice flavor.
     
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  4. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    Mash longer and low. It'll help dry it out. I'm generally 90 minutes at 64C for the saisons.

    I'm pretty simple on the malts side, 80% pilsner and then some rye, wheat or spelt to add some other flavours. So that makes Tony's comments important for me as it's easy to add in too much hops or flavourings with that grain bill. So i try to keep the boil hops as clean as possible and avoid spices, though I do enjoy a relatively heavy dry hop every now and again.

    And for me temp is very strain dependent. Haven't used that one for ages so can't remember what did or didn't work. Think it ended up relatively subtle for me and I'd have pitched at around 18C and let it free rise in a relatively small ferm chamber.
     
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  5. FreddieFred

    FreddieFred New Member

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    Thanks for the comments guys. I'm brewing today :) will reduce the hop and coriander additions and mash for longer, I think.
     
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  6. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    I have a Saison up next and was looking for something to set it apart from prior brews. Have had great success with fruit additions but wanted to go a different direction. Would 20% rye with pils and around 35 IBU, 60 minute hop addition work with Belle Saison yeast? Have a good selection of hops and could add some dry hops if I wanted more of something after tasting fermentation . I like rye but don't want to stand above yeast with it.
     
  7. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    The Belle Saison yeast achieves a very high degree of attenuation. More than just abou5 any other yeast I use.
     
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  8. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    When I've used it in saisons it's been around 10-15%, with around 10% wheat. It doesn't stand out there, so I don't think 20% would push it over the edge. Sounds like it'd give you a pretty good impression of the yeast and the grain.
     
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  9. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    I have used Belle Saison quite a bit. Even in bigger beers. Prefer it in beers under 6% though.
    There is a local brewery with a rye IPA that is one of my favs. I need to play with rye more.
    Let us know how yours comes out @FreddieFred !
     
  10. ^Tony^

    ^Tony^ Active Member

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    M2C: I love the grainy bitterness of beers made with rye but it can sometimes make them a little on the harshly bitter side. I have played a lot with ingredients in saisons. My philosophy now is start simple and small and increase from there. I think Mark is on the right track with 10-15%, with around 10% wheat; unless you already know that's the profile you like.
     
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  11. Brouwerij Nuenhem

    Brouwerij Nuenhem New Member

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    Which SAFE yeast do you use? I have exciting experiences with original saison yeasts (Belgian Saison; Wyeast #3724); I never know exactly when it was fermented. My experience is that they regularly take a break during the fermentation ... I would not like to be surprised again when opening a bottle of Saison ... Bottles were dangerously high in carbonation.
     
  12. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    The Belle Saison yeast will usually ferment 3 or 4 points past the expected FG. I usually leave it in the fermenter at least a week past when it appears to be finished. Otherwise, you may bottle and find a lot more carbonation than expected. Here's a screen shot from the batch I am currently fermenting. Even though it's down to 1.003, I'm going to give it another week before bottling. The Danstar Belle Saison yeast has never hit a stall on any of my batches.
    saison.JPG
     
  13. FreddieFred

    FreddieFred New Member

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    I've taken a gravity reading of the Saisonish and its showing at 1.003. This is well past the expected final gravity of 1.016 so likely to be northwards of 7% ABV.
    I am wondering whether to bottle now or wait a few more days as planned.
     
  14. ^Tony^

    ^Tony^ Active Member

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    If the gravity reading has been 1.003 for 2 samples at least 3 to 4 days apart then it is likely done fermenting and you could probably bottle it. If not, wait. It's not a good idea to bottle based just on the gravity value by itself; bottle if the gravity reading does not change over a period of about 3 - 4 day apart.
     
  15. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    My saison is down to 1.001. This yeast seem to just keeps going.
     
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  16. ^Tony^

    ^Tony^ Active Member

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    I like the Danstar Belle Saison yeast. Gives a nice flavor. You ferment around 68 F? I am brewing a saison with the Danstar Belle Saison in the next few weeks and was debating pushing the fermentation temp to about 77-80 F (25-26.5 C). Have you ever done that? What kind of esters did it toss out?
     
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  17. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Best profile I've ever got is to start at around 68, let it go there for a couple days, then let it rise on its own to whatever temperature it likes. Higher temps could give you what I call the 'American' Belgian profile, you know, the kind of beer youngish guys with great beards sip at brewpubs, grimace, then talk about the lovely complexity of what is essentially an undrinkable beer.
     
  18. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    I tend to hold mine at about 68 throughout the fermentation. The Belle Saison yeast has a bit cooler range than some of the other Saison yeasts.
     
  19. ^Tony^

    ^Tony^ Active Member

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    Thanks folks! I appreciate the feedback!
     
  20. FreddieFred

    FreddieFred New Member

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    The FG reading remained 1.003 so I decided to bottle. The beer seems particularly cloudy in the bottle. Is that an indication that maybe I should have waited a bit longer?
     

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