Purging secondary

[Triskele]

I've only done brews from extract kits. I want to brew a NB Imperial stout but the instruction state to allow fermentation 2-3 months. My understanding is that I will need to use a secondary fermenter due to the length of time. Good sanitation aside my only issue would be the concern with oxidation. I plan on using a 5 gallon glass carboy for a secondary. I don't keg so I don't have CO2 equipment. What would be the best way to purge the secondary of oxygen prior to racking?
Am I over thinking this?

 

[Sandy Feet]

Did you already buy this thing? I don't know if I would want to start playing around with Imperial Stouts until I got the normal stouts right.
Normal fermentation is only a couple of weeks and then you bottle or keg and age. Is there a second pitch involved in this?

 

[Triskele]

I just completed a batch of the NB Imperial stout. It was so good that I bought another kit. The first time I fermented in a 6.5 gal glass carboy using two packets of dried yeast. I used a blowoff tube, thankfully. I let it sit in the fermenter for 3 months racked to a bottling bucket, added syrup, then to bottles. This was all per the instructions sent with the kit. Racking to a secondary was optional.
My friends and I think it turned out great. Maybe I just got lucky or maybe I'm not picky about my stouts.
For the second batch I think that I should rack to a secondary based on information that I'm reading in forums.

 

[Megary]

Yeah, not sure what the purpose is of allowing 2-3 months for fermentation. For an Imperial Stout I might let it go 2-3 weeks, not months. Then bottle, don't bother with a secondary. Maybe let it age 2-3 months, or years.

Good luck!

 

[Megary]

I just completed a batch of the NB Imperial stout. It was so good that I bought another kit. The first time I fermented in a 6.5 gal glass carboy using two packets of dried yeast. I used a blowoff tube, thankfully. I let it sit in the fermenter for 3 months racked to a bottling bucket, added syrup, then to bottles. This was all per the instructions sent with the kit. Racking to a secondary was optional.
My friends and I think it turned out great. Maybe I just got lucky or maybe I'm not picky about my stouts.
For the second batch I think that I should rack to a secondary based on information that I'm reading in forums.

What do these forums say is the benefit to racking to a secondary? I'm not trying to discount the advice, I'm honestly curious.

 

[Triskele]

Any time less than than three weeks fermenting not to bother racking to a secondary. The process of racking creates more possible problems than the negative effects of letting the beer sit on the trub.
More than 3 weeks of fermenting on the trub creates off flavors and its better to rack to a secondary.
I really like stouts and I'm not too critical.
I'm leaning on using a secondary and if it causes problems, then lessons learned. I've always have the attitude that one learns equally from failures or successes.
I'm learning.

 

[Bigbre04]

What do these forums say is the benefit to racking to a secondary? I'm not trying to discount the advice, I'm honestly curious.

the only advantage that i see would be that if its sitting on yeast for that long it would possibly avoid yeast autolysis? The big disadvantage is all that lovely DO pickup. Without the gear todo it, i would not do it.

Honestly leaving it that long would allow the beer to really clean up and become a lot less harsh, but this would also allow plenty of time for the beer to get gross if it wasnt kept cold, clean, and under CO2

 

[Bigbre04]

Any time less than than three weeks fermenting not to bother racking to a secondary. The process of racking creates more possible problems than the negative effects of letting the beer sit on the trub.
More than 3 weeks of fermenting on the trub creates off flavors and its better to rack to a secondary.
I really like stouts and I'm not too critical.
I'm leaning on using a secondary and if it causes problems, then lessons learned. I've always have the attitude that one learns equally from failures or successes.
I'm learning.

without CO2 you will get a lot of Dissolved O2...cardboard flavor. You may not notice it due to it being a stout, but i will be there.

 

[Minbari]

Been brewing more than 10 years. Never used a secondary ever. Even stubborn fermentation that took 6weeks

 

[Triskele]

I was given a Anvil SS fermenting bucket. Would you trust fermenting it that for 1 month.

 

[Minbari]

I was given a Anvil SS fermenting bucket. Would you trust fermenting it that for 1 month.

You mean something like this? I do it all the time

 

[Triskele]

Well, kinda.
I'm so greatful for your input.
I'm enjoying what I'm doing, not to mention the drinking and sharing.
And that's what it's all about.

 

[Herm brews]

I have been brewing for five years, using plastic fermenters (1 FerMonster, 1 Speidel), and never done a secondary fermentation. The longest I have left a beer in primary was 6 weeks, and that was a good beer. There is no harm in allowing a beer to sit for a while so the yeast can clean up after themselves.
Since you don’t have kegging equipment, then you must be bottling. What the instructions might be suggesting is that you package your beer when it is ready, then let it age for 2-3 months in package. You will be fine, don’t worry about doing a secondary.

 

[Triskele]

Actually no. The instructions are pretty specific about bottling after 2 months. Up to 3 months.
I will let it stay in the primary and start testing the SG after about 3 weeks. When the SG starts stabilizing to bottle, then condition in the bottle. Hopefully this is what you're advising.

 

[Herm brews]

Actually no. The instructions are pretty specific about bottling after 2 months. Up to 3 months.
I will let it stay in the primary and start testing the SG after about 3 weeks. When the SG starts stabilizing to bottle, then condition in the bottle. Hopefully this is what you're advising.

Yes, that is what I would advise, though I have never brewed an Imperial Stout. But I do make a 5.2% American Stout that always turns out really good. I have only ever made 1 kit beer, my very first. Since then, I have found an all grain process that works for me. From what I see posted online, it seems beer kit instructions often call for racking to a secondary fermentation, though many argue against the practice in an effort to avoid exposure to air, and also to simplify. The practice of racking to secondary used to be standard, but from what I know, it is now generally thought of as an unnecessary step.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

I've not brewed an Imperial Stout but every year (except this one ) I brew either a Scottish Wee Heavy or a w00t Stout. I transfer those to a glass carboy for bulk aging (4-9 months). The long bulk aging allows for complex flavors to develop. I would use a secondary vessel (preferable glass due to it being impervious to oxygen) if you plan to ferment longer than 6 weeks. You can go longer in the primary fermentor but, I don't really know where that limit is. When transferring to a secondary vessel, be very focused on sanitation and leave very little head space. The small head space is important because you don't have the benefit of very active yeast consuming what oxygen you will introduce when you transfer. But, on the other hand, don't stress too much about oxidation either. Any big beer big enough to bulk age is a beer that will help hide a little oxidation. Not to say you should ignore it, just don't freak out about it. One last suggestion. When bottling a beer you've bulk aged, add yeast when bottling. After months in secondary, there may not be enough healthy yeast cells to consume the priming sugar. I use CBC-1. It is neutral yeast with a high alcohol tolerance. Avoid champaign yeasts because they will ferment sugars that are unfermentable to regular beer yeasts. So you will likely over-carbonate your beer.

Edit: I have to start proof-reading my posts before I hit "Post". I got it wrong in the first few words....W00t Stout IS an Imperial Stout.

 

[Megary]

This conversation really intrigues me...

So what should we expect the difference to be in the finished beer between:

a) transferring an Imperial Stout to a secondary "brite" vessel and aging for 6+ months before priming and bottling
vs.
b) priming and bottling an Imperial Stout after fermentation is over and then aging in bottles for 6+ months.

Would flavors develop differently carbed vs. uncarbed? Should we expect more oxidative notes in the brite vessel version? Would the "b" version take longer to develop and smooth out?

 

[Craigerrr]

I'm with you @Megary also intrigued by this subject.
Eventually I want to brew both a RIS and Wee Heavy at some point, seems maybe both might benefit from being being moved to a secondary.
After 7 years and 72 batches for 441 gallons brewed I have yet to transfer to a secondary.
Biggest beer I have done was a double chocolate cranberry stout at 7.5%, I bottled half of that batch and let it age for several months.

 

[Minbari]

This conversation really intrigues me...

So what should we expect the difference to be in the finished beer between:

a) transferring an Imperial Stout to a secondary "brite" vessel and aging for 6+ months before priming and bottling
vs.
b) priming and bottling an Imperial Stout after fermentation is over and then aging in bottles for 6+ months.

Would flavors develop differently carbed vs. uncarbed? Should we expect more oxidative notes in the brite vessel version? Would the "b" version take longer to develop and smooth out?

I have only ever done 1 imperial stout that I aged. I did the aging in a keg with barrel staves. BUT I did purge the keg first and added about 5psi of head pressure. Turned out really good.

If I had to guess, bottle aging would work too

 

[Megary]

I have only ever done 1 imperial stout that I aged. I did the aging in a keg with barrel staves. BUT I did purge the keg first and added about 5psi of head pressure. Turned out really good.

If I had to guess, bottle aging would work too

I’ve only ever made one IS as well, though I have made a few Barleywines. Not sure the discussion applies to that style as well, but probably does. I’ve always bottled these big beers after fermentation was over and then aged from there. I am now wondering if allowing the beer to remain uncarbonated for an extended period would affect how it ages. I might have to take a deep dive here and see if I can find any hard answers. Fun topic.