Primitive cider (again)

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by Zambezi Special, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

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    OK, the real hot weather is over, so I want to do another batch of cider again (made from.packs of apple juice).
    I still haven't got any temperature control, so the whole (small) fermenter will go into my coolbox.
    Current temperatures are between 23 and 36 oC (with a "feels like" temperature of up to 42, but I assume the yeast won't care about that).
    I got 3 choices of yeast:
    Safcider (which I used before and quite like)
    MJ kveik
    Lallemand Kveik
    I've never used kveik though.

    I normally make multiple batches by putting new apple juice on the left over trub.

    Which yeast would you use and why?
    And how much (I use 6 litres juice per batch)

    I've also tried to make a hoppy cider by just adding hop to the batch, by adding hop to boiling water (with sugar sugar for an extra punch) and boiled for 5 minutes, but I haven't been able to taste any bitterness.
    I used 5 gr of 4% aa hop.
    Any clues/tips/advice here?
     
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  2. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    If you use Kveik you don't have to worry about keeping it cool. I just curl up into a ball and hide if it's 36C so I have no useful input for that.
     
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  3. Ward Chillington

    Ward Chillington Well-Known Member

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    YOU are the perfect kveik candidate! This is an interesting idea so I went and found this for you

    Kveik and Cider | HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

    I have used the Imperial blend mentioned on stouts and browns and I found it to be pretty clean and found the brews a little more malty then normal which with me, hell...puts me right at home, love me a malt forward beer! Granted, I specifically used this yeast blend since they mention the fruity esters in advertising and mention pales and blondes would yield the fruity esters so I put it in my tried and true brown brew looking for some of those fruity notes to go with the malty forwardness of that recipe but alas....just more malt!

    Love to hear how it comes out!
     
  4. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

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    To put things into perspective...
    We start wearing jackets when the temperature gets below 28 oC :)
     
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  5. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

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    OK, i'll be using Kveik (mine is Voss, I think).
    The coolbox is just there to level out day and night temperatures. Less fluctuation.
    Still reading the article mentioned above as my internet is terrible today.

    Any hints on how much yeast to use?
    Any ideas on how to get a bit of a hoppy flavour in my cider?

    I will put extra sugar when bottling. I just don't like flat cider
    (And to me the alcoholic drink is cider. The non-alcoholic one is apple juice) ;)
     
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  6. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    You could easily get away with 1/10th of a pouch if you can measure that accurately.
     
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  7. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

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    I'll use one of my measuring spoons as my precission scale is still in a box ...
    I figure that beer yeast would roughly weigh the same per gram as instant active yeast (and according to google 1 teaspoon of that weighs 3.15 gr. So I'll be going for 1/2 teaspoon (1.57) gr which is a bit more than the 1/10 of a pack.
    This would just be for 6 litres !
    I'm not going to add anything else, no sugar, no hop, no lemon peel or anything in this batch.
    We'll start plating from batch 2 onwards :)
     
  8. Donoroto

    Donoroto Well-Known Member

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    Well, how bad could it turn out? Probably just fine. I'm interested to hear how this turns out.
     
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  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Hey Zambezi I'm gunna do two different ferment s today one with 34/70 slurry and the other with Framgarden kviek fermented at around 30c. Gunna ferment them in the juice bottle they come in and probably will back sweeten them (depending on taste) . And douse end result with lactic 88% acid to taste.
     
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  10. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good Ben
    I need to clean up the mess from the big thunderstorm tonite and then start cleaning my equipment.
    I'll have to use hot water and chlorine as all else is still in storage.
    Then got to clean the coolbox as I used that for storing cat and dog food ;)
    I'll keep you all posted!
     
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  11. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    CHEERS I just put two down 20210110_163447.jpg added a smidge of gypsum and half teaspoon of nutrient devided into both. Shook the crap out of them.
    Framgarden is fermenting @30c.
    And 34/70 is running at 17c.
     
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  12. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

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    I'm on my way as well.
    Nice and short brew day with store bought juice, and no cleaning afterwards ;)
    I cleaned my fermenting bucket first with dishwasher and water (it was real dirty), rinsed and let drip dry for some hours.
    Then I realised I should have some hydrogen peroxide and I was sure I could use that for cleaning. Double checked google and decided to go for it.
    I didn't use a sprayer as mine needs a lot of liquid to start working and I didn't have that much H2O2.
    So poured some in fermenter, swirled it around. Also on lid and through tap. Let stand 5-10 minutes and rinsed with hot water (that was boiled earlier in the day).
    Poured in.my 6 litres of juice and 1/2 teaspoon of Lallemand Kveik Voss.
    Sort of resealed the pack and threw in freezer.
    Put feementer in coolbox.
    Juice temp was 28-30 oC at pitching (temp strip on bucket)
    Sod's law: we are having a bit of a cold spell with max temps of 30 oC.
    Night around 24, so I'm figuring on averaging around 26-28 oC in the coolbox.
    Now it's time for a beer! IMG_20210110_141613.jpg
     
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  13. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Awesome stuff
    Here's mine this morn
    Framgarden this had already kicked off when I went to bed. 20210111_061746.jpg
    And 34/70 Looks like things are underway.
    20210111_061732.jpg
     
  14. Sunfire96

    Sunfire96 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a specific yeast nutrient you use for this? I've never made cider or wine
     
  15. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    No I'm just using regular hombrew beer nutrient nothing special because the apple juice is devoid of a few essentials like calcium magnesium zinc ect I just added a tiny bit to help them feel comfortable.
    I also added that tiny bit of gypsum for the calcium and for that crispness it brings.
    Totally winging it though it just makes sence to me;).
    I'll also most likely tart it up once fermented with some lactic acid to bring out that crisp brite flavour will see though.
     
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  16. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

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    Mine smells yeasty and a bit like apples, so I assume fermentation has started.
    Can't see inside the white bucket without opening it, and can't rely on airlock activity as my bucket leaks somewhere. Never managed to figure out where, so I just let it be.
    Going to be fun to decide when the fermentstion is finished as I got no hydrometer and refractometer.
    Previous batches (with safcider), I just bottled after about 2 weeks (adding sugar to each bottle).
    Might bottle a bit quicker since this is kveik.
    And no, I'm not scared of bottle bombs as I will be bottling in 500 ml green sprite (PET) bottles ;)
     
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  17. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Knowing Kviek a week should be plenty fine:).
     
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  18. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    With dry yeast you probably don't need any nutrient as they package it with the yeast, but it wouldn't hurt to toss some in if you have it.
     
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  19. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

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    Thank,
    Looks like I will do my primitive bottling in a couple days ;)
    Such a pain to know that you have the right equipment, but that you can't get to it!
     
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  20. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Took some gravities today of them two ciders.

    Framgarden fermented at 30c finished at 1.004 smell slightly fruity taste same tart dry ish finish.

    34/70 fermented 17c finished 1.002 cleaner not as much bite not as dry smoother.

    I actually prefer the framgarden so far it just tastes more cidery and is more interesting than the clean ferm of 34/70

    Cool will package them both soon and get a side by side going.

    How's your cider going @Zambezi Special ?
     

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